Supporters trust. Not run by the Club , runindependently with the sole aims of creating objectives and working towards financing them independently and liasing with the club. *Yes possibly similar to the wsu* But not self elected or run by the club (Say what you like the WSU has incredibly transparant links to the club and is sanctioned by them).
Say we have about 500 regular fans. £10 a season membership and a huge knowledge base. The fact it is independent would get more support. The fact that the club would have to liase and co operate would bring more support.
Clear objectives and documentation of progress would be available to the members (Not a website not updated for 2 years!)
A bigger member base would mean that events wouldnt be cancelled or money lost.
A Truly united organisation with clear goals and accountability with one goal. Raise Money and improve things for Welling United FC and show what is being done and also publish what the Club wants and Where the money goes, Strengthening a relationship between the club and the fans.
Now im sure those involved in the WSU will say absolute boll ocks but i would expect that.
What do we all think to a Supporters trust? Am i asking for a seat on the "board" for the trust at the start ...absolutely not, no way. But if the association is raising significant five figure sums and more than some of the Vice presidents and Club are investing naturally that would be requested over time and probably would be deserved on the performance of the trusts and the improvement to the situation at PVR.
But a Supporters trust i believe could link the club and the fans, invest cash into the club and complete a lot of projects all of which will improve matters at PVR.
A trust would also help commercially as naturally more money would be generated for the team should it be needed as well as Facilities / Overdrafts etc etc.
-- Edited by JgFc at 18:07, 2007-08-31
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Mate when the clubs in new hands and a few of the two faced ego tistical prawn sarnie eaters can be brought to task for failing, i'll be there. But it would be like pissing in the wind to get involved now
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Gazza use your log in... send me a pm and we will have a pint somewhere in the next 2 weeks, All done by coded emails or someone will alert the north koreans and they will bomb out rendevouz location
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Would you care to elaborate on who these two faced people are and why they really get up your hooter? Your idea seems OK in principal, but how are they ever going to get implemented if you haven't got the balls to stand up and be counted? Any change in the way things are run, especially for the better, would be welcomed by most fans. As for the North Koreans...........hmmm
Cynical In my opinion the JgFc v Russ, MarkX et al really needs to be confined to the history books by all concerned. There are numerous posts on the forum already and there has not been an iota of movement. Do we really need to dredge this up yet again?
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
Mine differs. I believe that some let their personal feelings about him get in the way of looking at what he says and others who may or may not know him have looked at what he has posted and agree with at least some of what he says but they don't reject what he says out of hand.
A case of perhaps throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
-- Edited by bruno at 01:33, 2007-09-03
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
Sometimes I agree with him sometimes I agree with you and others who disagree with JgFc (though those seem to be selectively read on occasions).
It would appear that when I agree with yourself etc, he is not anxious to tar me with being a member of that 'group' whilst if I agree with him I don't have to wait long for 'your mate JgFc' remarks from some quarters when attending games. Please tell me what purpose that is supposed to solve? (To clarify, not from yourself)
Would be useful if it could be understood that you can agree\disagree with a point of view without it necessarily reflecting on who you would care to associate. I'd go for a pint with Ken Livingstone but I'd spend a lifetime disagreeing with his politics.
It sometimes seems like we wasted six years between 1939 and 1945 getting rid of the Gestapo....
Its is NOT JgFc V Russ and whoever. It is my opinion that several fans who have previously slated the running of the club have now been silenced for the sake of a prawn sarnie/borrow the kit for supporters games and are allowed to run an organistaion that fails isnt supported but toes the club line.
It is about 2 faced people who sold themselves down the river for a shilling when nothing has or will change.
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
1 the club doesnt want to improve or succeed or will not strive to do so. It is lacking off the park.
2 The club wont have criticsm and wanted WUISA closed, hates forums and hates fans agreeing. The WSU is there sanctioned by the club, isnt supported but ensures that there will always be an us/them situation as those involved in the WSU will not criticse the running of the club or they will lose their kit and vol au vents.
If people disagree or can tell me why some that slated the club now chastise any criticsm when nothing changes i would be interested in their views.
It never has been jgf v russ, russ is ok hes passionate and decent enough, we share a feeling we want the club to do well. the website thing is long gone. I just wish he and others would express their views now and again rather than stick the head in the sand, or tell my WHY their views ahave changed so much that they are in bed with the club and poo poo anyone who disagrees with them or the club.
Theres only a few fans i truly believe are tobys and one of them is the misnister for it will be ok but on the whole the fans that support the club are among the best and most loyal you could wish for, i fear they accept the piss poor admin and commercial side of the club and thats a shame.
I still feel a trust type organisation where the fans are united would bully the club in to shapeing up and also be a great help.
Ive always been a person who wont be 2 faced and will strongly put my views across. And believe it or not what is said about me by the club or the couple of toby no brain fans does get back to me. does it bother me?? LOL I think not. Ive posted my number, ill meet anyone , have i had a call .. nope?
When the clubs owner sells up, i will be there, i will be involved i will help raise money. BUT those that have failed and have more faces than big ben should be shown as having no spine, ambition or benefit to an organisation democratically elected for all.
thank you
Now people can disagree but we know who they are and why they will disagree.
I think that covers most things especially for the new fans who havent got a clue about some of the aggro thats gone on.
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
JgFc, For the sake of clarity I was referring to those who I believe left WUISA and formed the basis of what is now the WSU, one of whom. again I believe, was Russ and I had no thought of 'the website thing'.
I think that within your post when talking about Russ you have hit the most important element on the head and that is sharing a passion for the Club and wanting the Club to do well. Those in the WSU, whether they post on the forum or not, and all who make the effort to post on the forum expressing their point of view have that passion or they wouldn't be doing what they are. In the nature of things it is unlikely that 100% of a large group of people will ever agree on all issues for all manner of reasons but they should be able to respect others views.
I personally believe that an independent supporters association can coexist with the WSU which is purely a fundraising group of fans - not ideal but workable. There needs to be an underlying common aim for an independent association and I would argue that this exists in that there is amongst the fanbase sufficient passion and desire for the Club to do well for the establishment of such an association. If we can all put aside our differences and focus on the aim then I believe it would be possible to get an association off the ground.
I have often said that the Club needs to come out of the 70's and I honestly believe that the apparent desire to stifle the fans voice lies in outdated attitiudes/opinions. Clubs which I would regard as progressive have already gone far beyond what JgFc is proposing at this point in time and any perceived threat from the organised and focused group of supporters has not materialised in fact the very opposite has proved the case.
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
You obviously cant stop your schoolboyish behaviour. It is obvious that you just want to wind JGFC up. I dont agree with JGFCs conduct all the time, but your conduct leaves alot to be desired sometimes. There have been plenty of times on this forum when i habe heard you make petty and snide remarks. You also appear sometimes to go avoid answering some valid points JGFC makes. JGFC may go over the top sometimes, but perhaps the reason that he doesnt attend games is that certain people dont appera make him seem welcome.
The Gestapo angle was on the eradication of dissent rather than the methods used in this case. And it is not only confined to debate about this club but also occurs a lot in the wider world these days.
That was really deep Stafford Getting back to the point in hand - I sometimes agree with what JgFc and others say in their threads, but being a relative newbie, I am not privvy to the 'workings' of Welling United or the WSU. It just appears that there is so much back biting with some of the supporters on this forum and possibly away from here, that it gets to be too personal. Question for Anonymous.........why would Mark X want to wind JgFc up? Stafford........
Sometimes I agree with him sometimes I agree with you and others who disagree with JgFc (though those seem to be selectively read on occasions).
So, does that mean you 'selectively' read threads from other fans that have a different opinion to JgFc or was that a generalisation? We all have the right to state our opinions and long may that be so, but I would still like to see JgFc at the ground. As a friend and past fan of WU said to me recently, the club ( chairman etc etc ) have never bothered to invest in it's future and only hold the rights to it for the sake of the kudos that it brings. Maybe JgFc is right, who knows?
I cannot see how a supporters trust would work. It's pie in the sky to think that 500 people are going to join. 50 maybe tops and the trust would have to work with the club not against it. To say the club would have to liaise etc is also only going to happen if the club thinks the trust is credible and run by people it wants to liaise / have contact with. It almost certainly a non-starter.
Fans seem to have a pretty stark choice all the time it is run by the Hobbins family. Either they can support the efforts made to raise funds for the club by sponsoring a goal, doing the bonus ball and buying the new scratchcard things (and ideally attending some of the functions) or they can say they aren't going to do anything until the club has new owners. WSU may have lost money on some ventures, but so - at least they are making an effort? I'm sure they aren't the only organisation to have done so. Whether you care for the people involved or not it isn't really about them it is about supporting Welling United. We can all go on about what happened to the £10 million we made from the Huddersfield FA Cup run and why is the budget always being cut (not increased or whatever) but unless we make an effort to support the the Club then there's not much point in moaning if we end up playing in the Kent League. If you say you are going to do nothing until the ownership changes then there's a pretty good chance it will be too late.
I don't really care about all the personalities involved but I do know that people like Ken, Mark, Sherpa etc give up their time to do their bit and I admire that.
Personally I would like to see something like a 100 Club (I think a 200 Club would be optimistic). I remember the days when we had something similar with holidays as prizes - I never won anything needless to say. I suspect cash would be more of a runner this time round. Lots of small organisations seem to run them pretty successfully.
Do you have to actually go to games to support a club? Someone could have watched Welling for 30 years and then be unable to go anymore due to work or geographical reasons. Does this person then cease to be a supporter in the eyes of those lucky enough to still be in a position to attend? They can still follow the club in the media and contribute to this forum. I don't see how not attending games can make their views any less valid.
1) Cynical: 'selectively read'. Not by myself. It seems that certain postings I have made in the past have been ignored when they didn't suit for painting me on one side or the other.
2) Courtjester: I try not to do hypocrisy so I did try to enquire at the start of pre-season on here what the support were prepared to do or whether they were happy with the level of their input. I think that there were about 3 sensible responses which probably tells you that the majority of people are happy with their current level of input and would prefer to chug along in an easy life or freeload off someone with a large wallet. Therefore, those that are not prepared to do don't really have too much right to accuse the owner of lack of ambition (and you can argue long and hard whether JgFc is one of those or not but consider the Radio Wings project as well in those arguments).
3) Glen: Brad now lives in the States and has attended matches in the past. I, for one, wouldn't think he supports us any less because he can't make a 6000 mile round trip for a game.
I cannot see how a supporters trust would work. It's pie in the sky to think that 500 people are going to join. 50 maybe tops and the trust would have to work with the club not against it. To say the club would have to liaise etc is also only going to happen if the club thinks the trust is credible and run by people it wants to liaise / have contact with. It almost certainly a non-starter.
Fans seem to have a pretty stark choice all the time it is run by the Hobbins family. Either they can support the efforts made to raise funds for the club by sponsoring a goal, doing the bonus ball and buying the new scratchcard things (and ideally attending some of the functions) or they can say they aren't going to do anything until the club has new owners. WSU may have lost money on some ventures, but so - at least they are making an effort? I'm sure they aren't the only organisation to have done so. Whether you care for the people involved or not it isn't really about them it is about supporting Welling United. We can all go on about what happened to the £10 million we made from the Huddersfield FA Cup run and why is the budget always being cut (not increased or whatever) but unless we make an effort to support the the Club then there's not much point in moaning if we end up playing in the Kent League. If you say you are going to do nothing until the ownership changes then there's a pretty good chance it will be too late.
I don't really care about all the personalities involved but I do know that people like Ken, Mark, Sherpa etc give up their time to do their bit and I admire that.
Personally I would like to see something like a 100 Club (I think a 200 Club would be optimistic). I remember the days when we had something similar with holidays as prizes - I never won anything needless to say. I suspect cash would be more of a runner this time round. Lots of small organisations seem to run them pretty successfully.
Andrew
And if everyone made posts like that by Andrew maybe things could change, Good ideas, No slanging, No pointing the finger and just honest opinion that put forward a seriously good start to a sensible debate.
Great post whether i agree with all or part of it.
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
