Listening to Jamie's interviews recently it seems he's not having a problem sourcing players good enough, and available, that would in theory come and play for us.
The problem seems to be financial, that when someone is 99% ours, we lose them at the last minute to someone offering more money.
No-one wants to see a return to the financial problems the club had in the recent past, but I do hope that once we have secured our place in the division for next season, and the ground works due in the next month or two are completed, that for next season we have a budget that will allow us to compete to retain our best players, as well as attract better quality new players.
There are teams in our division we've no change of matching financially in the short-term, but there are others that don't get attendances that dis-similar to ours, at Conf Prem and Conf South level, who pay above the level that we do, and until that changes I fear Jamie's current dilemma with potential signings isn't going to go away.
You're correct, but wouldn't this forum would go ape if we broke the budget? and with clubs in Conf South trumping us by paying nearly double what we can offer what can realistically be done??
Bigger crowds and more games/balls sponsored?
-- Edited by Falconwood_1 on Sunday 26th of January 2014 02:33:01 PM
However, better players and better results will boost attendances somewhat. We were unfortunate that the Dartford home game moving effectively cost us 1000 on the gate, that's 15-20k lost if you factor in bar takings etc as well as the entrance money.
We are spending circa 50k on ground improvement works. Next season we won't need to do that, and even without a cup run, I would expect there to be a five figure sum of money added to the annual budget, and that has to represent a player or two.
'However, better players and better results will boost attendances somewhat.'
We were beating league clubs and attendances weren't any better....if we stay up, keep the current crop of young players next season could be even better.
Yes, do that, but would be naive to think just keeping and not adding to/strengthening would be sufficient.
No matter what happens you won't keep every player we would like to come the summer, as has been proven in just about every close season since 1963.
This is a ridiculous post, why pay over the top money to mercenaries who are only interested in money. In this league with all the big clubs and a 46 game schedule we could only enter the playoff picture if we turned full time but we'll never get the crowds to support this, we never did back in the late eighties, early nineties, 1500 was about the average then in a league which we finished 6th but that was then and now the League is a totally different prospect. Am not interested in having a rich benefactor at club as sooner or later it will go wrong as they run out of money or any interest in the project. We are better to develop young players ourselves and sign hungry players such as Franks who want a chance to show what they have in the right environment. We have to run a tight ship as this is London so lots of competition in the market for sponsorship, ticket sales, players etc. We need to develop a link or two with some bigger clubs like the Bournemouth quasi link and move forward on and off the pitch.
No it is not a ridiculous post, and is in no way suggesting hiring mercenaries, as I pretty much wrote in my first post. There is a difference between boom and bust, mercenaries, and a budget on a par with other clubs in the division. We should not be out spent by clubs in the division, or two divisions, below us, anymore than a club in League One should outbid someone from the Premiership.
I agree about signing younger hungry players like Franks, but we lost Franks, and we have lost Dyer, Pires, Parkinson, Pugh, etc etc etc, and the latter few have come off worse for their move. Had we been able to up their wages a little at the time we might have found they would stay with Welling and the promise of a start week-in, week out, than leave for a higher level and more money, to then end up worse off two years later.
I said a budget to allow us to compete to retain our best players, not exactly unrealistic is it. In no way am I suggesting splashing out with money we don't have. Only a troll, or a fool, would mis-read the initial post. I have you in nearly both of those categories, as do others having read your recent grading of the playing staff you so quickly deleted.
They are smaller than most.
They are staffed badly.
They have little or poor choice of stock, or run out regularly.
They are outsourced, like the burger bar.
They are poorly decorated.
They are full of tables at half time so 50% of the potential capacity.
The bar is empty many Friday and Saturday evenings unlike other clubs who are "raking it in".
There is little plan of action to alter it.
Not all things we can change, or change in the short-term, but you asked what was wrong, and all of these points are costing us money in comparison to the clubs we compete against, even in Conf South let alone Conf Prem.
They have little or poor choice of stock, or run out regularly.
Poor choice , what do you want ?
They are outsourced, like the burger bar.
Didn't see too many people running to get involved with the tea bar at the
Start of the season
You don't just turn up at 2.50 to run a catering facility
They are poorly decorated.
Get your paint brush out Kevin
They are full of tables at half time so 50% of the potential capacity.
Ok so nobody wants a table ?
The bar is empty many Friday and Saturday evenings unlike other clubs who are "raking it in".
You know all the bookings that the club have ?
There is little plan of action to alter it.
You want a top team , ground upgrading and change to bar
Priorities are ?
Not all things we can change, or change in the short-term, but you asked what was wrong, and all of these points are costing us money in comparison to the clubs we compete against, even in Conf South let alone Conf prem
Paul, I did say that not all of them can be changed, at all, or in the short-term.
Why are factual statements taken as criticism?
I was merely amazed that someone would ask what the issues were. You would have to be blind to go to Dartford, Dover, Bromley, Maidstone and not see the limitations we are working under despite the fantastic efforts of yourself and many others at the club.
Poor stock that runs out regularly - fact, I work behind the bar.
Tables - yes, remove them for half-time to allow more people in. Limited window of 15minutes to raise funds, get as many bodies in there as possible.
Fri and Sat night - no, I don't know the bookings, but as I live 100 yards from the ground I am well aware of when it is open and closed.
The bar running out of stock is not opinion. Nor that the catering is outsourced, hardly opinion.
I give up some free time, limited compared to most admittedly, to assist the club. Less than many do, but more than many as well. I also pay at the gate every week.
Given I made enquiries to buy shares and assist with finance of the club via a third party, and my enquiries were then passed over to a rival club where I received 22 phone calls in 8 days from another club director begging for my money, I'll pass on that for the time being.
-- Edited by Kevin on Sunday 26th of January 2014 07:50:58 PM
I won't knock anyone that pays to go through the turnstiles and have opinions, as that's what it's all about. Let's face it every forum has it's share of special supporters.
Kevin, I am not a troll or a fool. I have been supporting Welling since 1982 and have followed them home and away all over the country since then.
I criticised the players after a very poor performance but chose to delete my post which is my choice.
I understand your point of trying to retain the best players but when you start bumping up wages for one or two then all the others will want their share then soon your wage bill is out of control.
A maximum salary has to be set for any player currently at the club or to be signed, if they don't want a deal then we have to go and get someone else. Even when Welling were successful in the late 1980's early 1990's the average crowd was still only about 1500 which is not attainable now as there is a lot of competition close by, not only from Football but lots of other stuff. Forest Green pay out some wages of over £2000 a week and look where they are in the table. The ground may lack some investment but how is that the clubs fault? The Club have had to spend lots o money on the new floodlights, etc when the money wasn't there. We need to organise a summer working party to spruce up the ground a bit where we can, I'm up for it and hope others are as well. Are you up for this?
I said last season and all through the summer that we needed to bring the catering in-house, so that all profits are retained, rather than simply selling a pitch to another business and letting them milk the cashcow. I'm sure what we receive in rent from them is a pittance compared to what could be earnt, minus the cost of hiring a couple of people part-time to staff it at matches. Yes, there's an initial expense involved in setting it up but that would be recouped in a matter of months. You have to speculate to accumulate. Had we done this in the summer with the proceeds from the Charlton friendly for example, that venture could be self-sufficient and the profits could now be invested into other expenses. Of course, now we have the more urgent issue of the ground improvements to worry about, that can't happen anytime soon.
Regarding the tables and chairs: Most people are in there for 15 minutes at a time, either at half time or for a quick one before/after the match. Yes, a few need to be provided for those who are elderly, unable to stand etc, but the vast majority can cope with 15 minutes on their feet. The tables take up half of the floorspace making it even more cramped than it needs to be. I know I'm not the only person who has peered through the door hoping to get a drink, then decided not to bother.
It would be interesting to have a thorough survey on who actually uses our bar(s), whether they are casual supporters, season ticket holders and/or WUSA members and what they see as drawbacks to using our facilities. I use the bar in the Eric B. suite where the service is very good even when it is crowded. Generally, on most matchdays, I prefer to use the football club's bars, before, during and after the match, so that they get the proceeds which, hopefully, helps to offset the costs of running the club. I wonder how many supporters would do the same even if the bar(s) were further improved? I am not knocking those who prefer to drink in a pub or micro pub - and I know there are number of us who also drink at the club - but surely for one or two days a week or fortnight would it not be better for all of our spending to go to the club?
Apologies Mr Stone. My comments are made merely through frustration at such easily rectified issues being either ignored, or dealt with poorly.
Football is a game and we are all fans, but the club is a business, and many a business that didn't act on income streams and didn't deal with expenses adequately would cease trading. Football is different in that fans will stick with the club no matter what, whereas customers of a traditional business would take they custom elsewhere.
I don't expect miracles and I know Welling has limitations glaringly obvious compared to a Luton or Forest Green, but not compared to a Alfreton, Gateshead or Braintree.
Jamie and the management team have worked wonders on the pitch. The players have too - almost without exception they have been brilliant. But easily rectifiable issues like communication, bar and catering improvements, seem not to be as improved, which is a shame. It's not a moan or a criticism, but a fact. More can be done, an should be done, to assist the on field matters.
I work in the bar for 15minutes. I am no expert. But the issues are obvious. Anyone drinking in it would point them out. Let's put that right and make the club another £500 per home game. It's a great start.
OMERTA - in answer to your point. A lot of people before and after the game drink elsewhere, for many reasons, some outlined by Ashford about overcrowding, decor, and other issues raised in the past about Sky TV for example. If that can be changed then the club will make more money. Let's do it please WUSA.
On a positive note, the club stopping re-entry, and therefore the host of people leaving at half time for a beer and now staying in the ground, a season or so ago, was a wise move. We need more wise moves though.
All I want is revenue to be maximised at every game so the on-field improvements can continue. There are far too many people with paper money in their pockets at a home game, willing to spend it, but can't.
There are far too many people with paper money in their pockets at a home game, willing to spend it, but can't.
Totally agree...meanwhile the new stand bar remains shut because of a mutually self destructive lack of common sense! Have been in the Welling bar 3 times this season in unsuccessful attempts to buy a drink!
There are far too many people with paper money in their pockets at a home game, willing to spend it, but can't.
Totally agree...meanwhile the new stand bar remains shut because of a mutually self destructive lack of common sense! Have been in the Welling bar 3 times this season in unsuccessful attempts to buy a drink!
I brought this up at the WUSA meeting.
It's entirely conceivable that our home game against Luton (19th April) could be the day they win promotion, in which case you could expect 2000 away fans to turn up. They would be segregated of course, so unable to use the Wings bar. We won't see a penny from them other than the price of a ticket and maybe a programme.
I don't care how bad the relationship with E&B is/has been (some on here do, and want to persist with a "cut off your nose to spite your face" attitude), the owners of both clubs need to put their bloody heads together and see sense.
They have a bar, we have fixtures which can entice a hell of a lot more people than they'll ever be able to attract. Anyone with a modicum of sense would try to work out a deal.
There are far too many people with paper money in their pockets at a home game, willing to spend it, but can't.
Totally agree...meanwhile the new stand bar remains shut because of a mutually self destructive lack of common sense! Have been in the Welling bar 3 times this season in unsuccessful attempts to buy a drink!
I brought this up at the WUSA meeting.
It's entirely conceivable that our home game against Luton (19th April) could be the day they win promotion, in which case you could expect 2000 away fans to turn up. They would be segregated of course, so unable to use the Wings bar. We won't see a penny from them other than the price of a ticket and maybe a programme.
I don't care how bad the relationship with E&B is/has been (some on here do, and want to persist with a "cut off your nose to spite your face" attitude), the owners of both clubs need to put their bloody heads together and see sense.
They have a bar, we have fixtures which can entice a hell of a lot more people than they'll ever be able to attract. Anyone with a modicum of sense would try to work out a deal.
So we have 2,000 away fans in the ground and we serve them alcohol.........win,lose or draw that is a ridiculous idea.
Besides which the Old Bill won't be very keen - I suspect they might want the Guy (and other locals) shut that day.
There is no love lost between WUFC and E and B anyway and, if they were to open their bar for certain games, why would they give us a share of the income??
So we have 2,000 away fans in the ground and we serve them alcohol.........win,lose or draw that is a ridiculous idea.
Besides which the Old Bill won't be very keen - I suspect they might want the Guy (and other locals) shut that day.
There is no love lost between WUFC and E and B anyway and, if they were to open their bar for certain games, why would they give us a share of the income??
I'm using the most extreme example just to illustrate a point - we're not making as much money per head as we could, regardless of whether there are 2000 or 20 away fans. The same applies to the catering.
Re: the last point. I'm pretty sure E&B couldn't just open THEIR bar for OUR games without OUR say so.
Let's imagine the two clubs came to an agreement whereby the bar was open for away supporters, and the two clubs agreed a % split of the profit. I know people will say "Oh why should E&B get anything at all?". I don't care whether they "deserve it" or what they've done/haven't done for us in the past. I care about their facilities and their potential to generate money for us - and clearly E&B would need some sort of incentive to open it. Meanwhile, we would still be taking a cut of earnings we wouldn't see a penny of otherwise. Win win - but no doubt made impossible by the stubbornness and lack of common sense Wellington Boot pointed to.
-- Edited by Ashford Wing on Tuesday 28th of January 2014 11:19:40 AM
Much of which comes back to the stumbling block of several decades.... would you rather own something smaller of which you can have total control or something bigger, which by its very nature, you can only exercise looser control.
Can anyone answer this question for me, What is the Conferences policy on shirt sponsorship? The reason I'm asking is it may be possible to raise more money by selling areas of the strip to local businesses. I have no idea how much Pure pay for the main sponsorship but I know of other local teams selling the main sponsorship to many different businesses in the form of a raffle and the lucky winner getting the main shirt-front and runners up getting the back and the shorts, all those who participated were treated to a hospitality match day as a thank you for putting money forward. One of the clubs charged £1000 per entry(50+), One charged £250 per entry(30+).
__________________
All postings lubricated by The Door Hinge Ale House 11 Welling High Street
Can anyone answer this question for me, What is the Conferences policy on shirt sponsorship? The reason I'm asking is it may be possible to raise more money by selling areas of the strip to local businesses. I have no idea how much Pure pay for the main sponsorship but I know of other local teams selling the main sponsorship to many different businesses in the form of a raffle and the lucky winner getting the main shirt-front and runners up getting the back and the shorts, all those who participated were treated to a hospitality match day as a thank you for putting money forward. One of the clubs charged £1000 per entry(50+), One charged £250 per entry(30+).
Didn't we do exactly that for our main shirt sponsor during the second half of the 10/11 season?
