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Post Info TOPIC: Welling United v Chippenham Town match thread
Danson Mark


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https://www.kentsportsnews.com/welling-united-v-chippenham-town-preview-7-24-02-2023/



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Danson Mark


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MATCH PREVIEW | Welling United v Chippenham Town - Welling United FC



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Johnny Hartley


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I start to wonder if maybe Warren is some kind of surreal stonefaced comedian, as we played at home on Tuesday, didn't have a single shot on target, and he comes out in his interview and says with a straight face he told the players after the game "If you play like that you will win more games than you lose". And there I was, mistakenly thinking one had to shoot on target and score goals to win games.

It's like, the worse we play, the better he says we play. Let's see what happens against Chippenham, hopefully no broken glass from dropping three pints. Shock match prediction: Welling to take an early lead, and concede an equaliser in injury time. Second shock match prediction, Erith's bogs to continue to resemble Dartford.

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MarkX


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Well we are winning 3-0 in bookings so far

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0-0 Half Time

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0-1

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Pattinson on for Kassarate

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1-1 Lyons -Foster

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1-1 Full Time

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Wallop


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Chippenham looked very average.
In fact, I would go one further and suggest the chips are down

A very poor game from the referee whos name sums him up perfectly.



-- Edited by Wallop on Saturday 25th of February 2023 05:57:49 PM

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OldOak2


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Very poor performance, in my opinion. We looked the away side, not a side going for 3 points to climb up the table. But WF seems only to be aiming for mid-table so I expect hell be content.



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Spills


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Wasnt at game so cant comment on game. But I noticed the attendance was 569 (granted little to no away support) but that attendance is very befitting of a mid table side. 



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Johnny Hartley


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I was explaining the phrase "Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining" to my son today, which just in case anyone doesn't get it means "ffs please don't insult my intelligence by trying to convince me about something that is obviously not what you are trying to con me into believing".

I explained to him the relevance of this to a manager who bluffs the board and fans that things are going well, and that we are progressing positively, and that things are going better. They are not, he is just trying to buy time like all managers do when they want to avoid the reality of the results of their poor leadership.

So let's actually look at the TRUTH - league results from this shambles of a season so far, that everyone is too scared to look at directly, and think what it means is coming up next season unless someone has the balls to make big decisions.

Aug P 6 W2
Sep P4 W 2
Oct P5 W1
Nov P 4 W 0
Dec P3 W 1
Jan P 4 W2
Feb P 6 W1

One win per month on average.

NO improvement as the season moves on (in fact, the reverse, we have got worse).

I was casually thinking to myself "I wonder who the player of the season will be?", my shortlist was Ade, Myles, Taylor, Chi, and that was a nice surprise to me, as we have quality across the pitch, keeper, defence, midfield, attack, unlike last season where in my book only Max Statham and Dipo really stood out. But poor management is wasting our talent (and other players are excellent too, the less effective players have been dropped as the season has gone on, so everyone left has "quality").

Chippenham were fifth from bottom, as far as I am aware we had no shots on target in the first half, and only 2 in the second half. After our previous match, where we had 0 shots on target.

Peter Taylor was sacked with 10 games to go, enough games for his successor to make a difference.

We have had 5 wins in 5 months, which is 5 wins in 22 games. What exactly is it the board see in the manager that the diminishing fans can't see? Where is the team shape, the promised getting better as the season goes on, shots on target, dealing with atrocious disciplinary record, manager engagement with fans?

Football is full of wannabees. Frank Lampard was a great player, who wannabe a manager, but ex players wanting it isn't enough, as a manager one has to win and deliver and immediately realise one needs a whole new set of skills to manage a team. Football management isn't screaming abuse at ones players and alienating them, and creating a toxic environment where one picks on players too scared to answer back, or dismissing the views of extremely knowledgeable fans who were here long before the manager, and will be here long after he has gone, as "noise" that needs to be disregarded. I hear the fans around me spot on with their comments about what we are doing wrong on the pitch, but the king of self serving poor spin will never even hear their wisdom, and will bluff we are doing just fine and will win more than we lose if we keep playing the way we do. Which, to remind, is one win a month for the past five months:

Aug P 6 W2
Sep P4 W 2
Oct P5 W1
Nov P 4 W 0
Dec P3 W 1
Jan P 4 W2
Feb P 6 W1

Today, good start, off target shots once again, Stefan played in the hole behind the strikers really well, not too deep as to be isolated, that worked, George Alexander was a puzzle, I wondered if he wasn't strong enough to get past defenders, my son said he thought he wasn't quick enough, so looking forward to more games to see what he is all about as it is till to early to judge. Antony has had a really successful months loan, scored in 3 successive games, played 6 games in a row so will be really fit, and of course that means since his return for the past two games he hasnt even been in our squad. Jamie Sendles-White played a perfect game in defence, he was my man of the match against Braintree, great stuff today. We have two league games a week for the next 5 weeks. But we can tell the players if we keep playing like we are playing we will lose more games than we will win.



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Spills wrote:

Wasnt at game so cant comment on game. But I noticed the attendance was 569 (granted little to no away support) but that attendance is very befitting of a mid table side. 

 To me it seemed like less than Tuesday night, and that was given as 450 or something close to. Maybe charlton being at home wouldn't of helped yesterday but then nor does the football being played. 

What has happened to the marquee? It was a nice to sit before games and now has nothing in, giving little or nowhere to sit. It was always full before as was easy especially with kids to sit down and eat/drink. There are people who've done decent work at the club who then employ people who seem to forget it's a football club not a grab a granny night! So why is the whole bar etc still set up for a 'club' night when the next one ain't till 28th April? What is the GM doing other than holding doors open with fire extinguishers? 

Place looks untidy again too, everywhere you go around the ground just crap laying around, there are I believe people paid to run the ground etc so what are they doing other than relying on volunteers? 



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Jimmy


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For what's it's worth I didn't think we were that bad but it's again the context of how the result is viewed. If we had been on a decent run before hand you'd expect a hiccup and that game wouldn't have maybe accrued as much criticism. On the other hand - we just huff and puff most games, don't look like scoring. So in consistent in respect of results and performances being drab it's another negative unfortunately.

Not sure why feeney makes references to last season. This is a different squad. Yes we stayed up: thank you. I don't see it changing while he remains in charge - lower mid table team at best.

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The same boring performance Ive seen all season. Long aimless balls which were largely ineffective. I thought Azeez and Alexander did fairly well chasing lost causes all afternoon. For some reason we seem frightened to string more than two passes together before launching it forward. constantly bypassing our useless midfield. Big fan of Roberts but the mistakes have to stop if hes going to progress up the leagues. Payne clearly has some issues because he cant seem to go 90 mins without looking like hes going to get sent off. Although what can you expect when your manager is constantly being warned about his conduct on the sidelines. He seems to have coached the creative flair out of all our players and we rely on the opposition making mistakes rather than creating chances.

If this is what a successful season looks like, Id hate to see a bad one! The depressing thing is, this is what we have to look forward to for the foreseeable future.

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Another poor performance against a team that truth be told just aren't very good. As much as the referee didn't have the best of games it certainly wasn't his fault that we didn't win. I'm astounded that WF is still in a job, any other team with the sort of budget he has been given would have dispensed of his services long ago. There isn't too long to go in the season, we aren't going down and we certainly aren't going up (nor can we really afford to - and that's before I even start on ground grading), my only hope - and it is a faint one - is that maybe the board see it like this too and don't see any point in sacking WF now, rather let his contract run out in the summer and part ways with no compensation involved. There are some good managers about right now, Hakan Hayrettin and Daryl McMahon to name two, although whether they would come here is another story. It almost certainly won't end up like this and we will have to put up with Feeney-ball for at least another season.

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We aint very good are we.

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Johnny Hartley


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Just popping on here to make a quick point that hopefully gets fed back to the manager.

By now we clearly have such a bad reputation about our discipline that outsiders would think we are a dirty side as we have so many bookings and sendings off, whereas most of them are just from stupid arguing with the ref and non violent things like that.

So teams are now starting to try to exploit our bad disciplinary record and are now starting to try to con refs that we have fouled them. That recent Kassarate sending off was an example, the guy rolling around as if he had been assaulted, whereas if you really are hurt you don't move!

In the Chippenham game this happened again, a player fell down dramatically, and I saw the ref laughing as he went to the player, as the ref knew the player was full of crap and was doing really bad play acting. The problem is we were ok this time, the ref didn't fall for it, but won't be so lucky every time that the ref will see what the opposition are up to, and with 2 games a week for the next 5 weeks, and already some out injured, we can't afford suspensions.

I think fair's fair, I wasn't that impressed earlier with Medy Elito, as he mistimed so many passes, but he has clearly worked on getting his speed up so he is at the pace of our games now, so times things better, so that is good. And James Dunne switches the play from side to side well, as I remember when I started watching us we were so one dimensional and only played the ball in a straight line forward, never switching sideways, so I like the way he switches play from one side to the other.

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Johnny Hartley wrote:

Just popping on here to make a quick point that hopefully gets fed back to the manager.

By now we clearly have such a bad reputation about our discipline that outsiders would think we are a dirty side as we have so many bookings and sendings off, whereas most of them are just from stupid arguing with the ref and non violent things like that.

So teams are now starting to try to exploit our bad disciplinary record and are now starting to try to con refs that we have fouled them. That recent Kassarate sending off was an example, the guy rolling around as if he had been assaulted, whereas if you really are hurt you don't move!

In the Chippenham game this happened again, a player fell down dramatically, and I saw the ref laughing as he went to the player, as the ref knew the player was full of crap and was doing really bad play acting. The problem is we were ok this time, the ref didn't fall for it, but won't be so lucky every time that the ref will see what the opposition are up to, and with 2 games a week for the next 5 weeks, and already some out injured, we can't afford suspensions.

I think fair's fair, I wasn't that impressed earlier with Medy Elito, as he mistimed so many passes, but he has clearly worked on getting his speed up so he is at the pace of our games now, so times things better, so that is good. And James Dunne switches the play from side to side well, as I remember when I started watching us we were so one dimensional and only played the ball in a straight line forward, never switching sideways, so I like the way he switches play from one side to the other.

 So where is the quick point then..?



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GaryH


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Absolutely pointless yellow card that Payne got, again.  The ball was in their half, by the touch line, with no threat whatsoever. 
I can understand taking one if they were on the break etc but this was just ludicrous.  He was actually playing ok the start of the game but then a possible red for the remainder of the match.  
As for the game itself, bit like Payne's yellow really.  Typical, predictable and not great to watch. 



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Agreed GH

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RonF


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On the evidence of the last two games, a mediocre side, playing mediocre football getting mediocre results, playing in front of mediocre crowds. The season started off with much enthusiasm and drive both on and off the pitch, in this respect the bubble seems to have burst and we now appear to be treading water. Lets hope we get some sort of uplift on Tuesday, however, I have my doubts!

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Johnny Hartley


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One positive from the Chippenham game was Stefan played the role behind the two strikers really well, always keeping position just behind them, unlike an earlier game where he was so far behind them as to be literally of little support. He had a header and a shot, so had some useful attacking moments. I've always thought we needed to play 3 in attack, and having 2 plus a player supporting just behind is pretty close to that.

Nigel, for me that was short! Actually in relation to Nigel, that reminds me of something I wanted to clarify. Nigel mentioned here a while back Warren told him to tell the forum I post under a screen name. This great "revelation/ discovery" of Warren's accusation of my deception struck me as very silly and wrong. A couple of months before I had that talk to the players I had told him the name I post under. He then got angry at me I had posted here about that talk, as he hates social media, so didn't realise what I said was said positively and reflected well on the club, as being supportive of engagement with fans was a good thing to mention on the forum, not hide.

He confronted me with the fact I post under this name, I then showed him the message of several months earlier I had sent him about posting here that he had evidently forgotten, (and which he forgot again when passing on an inaccurate message to Nigel to threaten me with) when I already pointed out the screen name I use.

I noticed with interest Kasim was unexpectedly released the day he had a news item about his Welling football, there seemed a pattern of cutting people off who talk publicly. So when I say someone has a grudgeful character, these are the sort of stupid fall outs that show why that view can be held. And unreasonably threatening someone for doing no more than simply saying one is grudgeful just emphasises how accurate such suggestions can be.

When I talked to the chairman about some structural improvement suggestions I had also told been totally open and transparent and told him the screen name I use, so there was no secret/ deception that Warren misled Nigel and this forum into believing there to be. In fact me being me was so well known that in the bar Matt, who had never met me before, came to me and said "hello Johnny Hartley".

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Our king of spin can rightly say we are top of the table, as not being satisfied with being top of the team poor disciplinary table averaging three cards a game www.transfermarkt.co.uk/national-league-south/fairnesstabelle/wettbewerb/NLS6 we now have the top three individual players on the worst disciplinary table! www.transfermarkt.co.uk/national-league-south/suenderkartei/wettbewerb/NLS6/saison_id/2022

And bearing in mind they are sometimes suspended, it is quite an achievement to manage to get booked so often. Some of the cards weren't justified, but most were. And antagonising refs and doing nothing to reduce arguing with refs (which is stupid as it achieves nothing, they don't change their decisions) just means nothings will improve.

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RonF wrote:

 

Lets hope we get some sort of uplift on Tuesday, however, I have my doubts!

I have doubts as well Ron. I would think players would be trying to impress the gaffer this late in the season so they get an option to sign for the next one. Although Im unable to attend away games at present and see less than 90 minutes of home games there has been very little to impress me this year. The one player that has is young Cameron but for some reason he gets very little game time. Can only guess he is our secret weapon to start next seasons campaign.

Next season could end up being the toughest struggle in our league since it was formed. Looks like we will loose Ebbsfleet (I wish them well) but the worry is clubs coming down. Maidstone are looking to bounce straight back and Torquay and Yeovil dont look safe. Read on national forum Southend are back in court this week and there is a possibility of sanctions against them. There is an outside chance of 3 ex league clubs which will possibly have a few quid to spend popping down for a visit in August.

Sorry post is longer than usual for me smile



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Spills


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With Feeney in charge, next season (which he will whether you like it or not, hes got the safest job in football after all) I will seriously be considering whether I purchase a season ticket or pick and choose the games I go to. 

All depends the noise around the club in the summer and whether I choose to block it out or not. 



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I think the noise last summer was why we had higher hopes for this season and why as fans we can't just compare this season to last season. The noise (good noise) last summer included new players, coaching staff, outside marquee bar, more sponsorship, etc etc. and we were expecting more. If we had just ended the season and had no May, June and July then mid-table would have been very welcome, but we all had higher hopes.

I think recruitment has not been great but I'm not totally sure how much input Warren had on some earlier signings? I'm resigned and will take mid table for this season and hope we get a few decent performances along the way (Slough away was a recent one). 



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Johnny Hartley


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There was a recent shock in Scottish cup football that struck me, as it was a team from the 6th division there, just like we are in the 6th division in our league, who were taking on the 5th team in their Premiership, which is the equivalent of Newcastle 5th in the Premiership in our league set up. The manager of the 6th division team was filmed giving his pre-match team talk, and it was so impressive and moving, I've watched it several times as it is so strikingly good, him talking realistically about the level they play at, and how much it meant to everyone connected with the team.

The last three minutes are so great, some of the best motivational talk I have ever heard from any manager, but worth watching it from the start to see how it leads to those 3 minutes. The team talk paid off, the 6th division team won. What struck me as so intriguing management was it was a team talk for a football match, but actually he didn't talk too much about football tactics for the match.

Not posting this in any connection with our manager, just that this is such a great team talk it is worth mentioning here in case anyone hasn't seen it yet. www.youtube.com/watch YouTube SCOTTISH CUP | Mick Kennedy Pre-match Team Talk




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You should check out Dirtfords forum...

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I couldn't find the Dartford fans' forum online, but From the Dartford website I got this news story, slightly edited by this here Welling fan...

"Feb 24 We are happy to announce that Andrex Toilet paper will be match sponsors for tomorrows game against Oxford City!"



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Don't really agree with the anti-Warren comments. At this level I think Welling play a lot of decent and direct football. A lot of the goals we concede are individual errors which are hard to coach out at any level. Even the games we've lost badly on the scoreboard like St Albans 0-3 a few months ago we gave a good showing. Maybe it's just me though.



-- Edited by Sidcup Knight on Tuesday 28th of February 2023 04:47:31 PM

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Would rather an individuals honest opinion, than being led like a sheep.

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Sidcup, one of the things I have learned about football is that sometimes results don't match performances, so one can play bad, and win, or play well, and lose. But overall, results match performances, and the table does not lie. I have only seen home games as a season ticket holder, so admit to missing half the performances so far this season. But I have only seen one home game this season that really impressed me - Oxford.

You say we play decent and direct football. But do we? In the last 3 games we have only had 2 shots on target. In the last 25 games we have only won 5 games.

You are right to say we concede a lot of goals due to individual errors, but what does our manager do to stop that? Nothing, as we keep on conceding soft goals. We don't get those sort of soft goals from opposition teams, as unlike us they have managers with an eye for detail who cut those mistakes out.

I used to be a solitary voice here defending the manager, but then I looked more carefully into his previous track record as a manager, and realised he had not learned a single lesson from previous failures and relegations of three teams in a row, and Welling would be the next relegation in his CV unless he realised he needed to change. But he does not realise he needs to change, so keeps making the same mistakes, with the same bad outcomes.

I like Wallop, but disagree with him on this. The sheep are saying, "we need stability, let's stick together and make no changes" and ignoring the fact that sticking to a continual failure is not a winning formula.

This forum has a reputation in the club of being toxic, but it isn't, anyone who says that really misses the point that it is really challenging and direct and honest, unlike cowards who hide behind spin or silence or evasion. He won't get us in the top half of the table this season, out of interest, what makes you think he can do that next season?

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I hear what you're saying. But I've seen teams where it's obvious there are no ideas, no one making runs, lack of effort, dissent from players on the pitch towards the staff. And I don't think that's the case - yet.

But obviously results have taken a bad turn and home form is getting worse. It was only a few games ago we were on a 'run' of one defeat in five, but the last three home games have been really poor, no question and the discipline issue is really concerning. I saw the post that showed we have the three players with the worst discipline in the league.



-- Edited by Sidcup Knight on Wednesday 1st of March 2023 08:41:36 AM

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Sidcup, a few months back morale was poor, it was like the bad situation you mention. But the players and the manager had a long heart to heart and that improved morale a lot and they went back to playing as a united team, and since then one can't fault them on effort, they were going for every ball last night, playing for each other. I watched Sam Coxs post match interview and was really impressed with both interviewer and Sam. Some interviewers at some clubs give fawning interviews after poor performances, avoiding difficult issues and aimed to give a good spin to events, rather than accurately reflecting what happened. I was impressed with Warrens meet the manager evening, as he was great at thinking on his feet and dealing constructively with challenging questions, so know he can answer tough interview questions, so doesnt need to only have easy questions.

There were tough, honest, realistic questions in Sam's interview, so it wasnt just spin. A concern about Warren is he doesnt show insight into why we lost matches and what we need to improve on, so doesnt learn lessons, so keeps having bad results, and isnt accurate in what he says, saying we played well when we clearly didnt. Sams interview was the opposite, he recognised head on we gradually played too deep, and that performances arent good enough. It is that honesty that is so important. Looking constructively at what is happening now, not trying to divert attention from the current mess to what happened in the past, or what the future hopes are.

I wondered why fans are so opposed to Warren, and concluded like me they must be tired of him inaccurately spinning how we do, as there is lots of effort, but not enough positive action to draw and keep fans, which is why attendances fall as he cares so little about giving the fans what they want, and just dismisses them as unimportant noise. I am now going to write to a couple of board members, as last night was the final straw for me.


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Johnny, I think Warren's interviews have changed a lot recently. A few months ago he was overly critical I thought, and even more so on the touchline. Now he's gone the other way in interviews to glossing over things like you say. Suggests to me he's had a think or maybe someone has had a word. There's a happy middle ground to be found and obviously what he says on Wings TV might not be what he's saying in the dressing room.

I did like Sam's interview - wonder why he did it instead of Feeney?

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Welling United v Chippenham Town match thread
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Results over the season have been inconsistent to say the least. We had a chance to put things right with a run of three home games where I believed we could get at least 7 points. We blew it, one point from the three matches was probably a fair reflection on our performances. You could probably count on one hand the number of times the opposing goalkeeper was called upon to make saves in all of the matches added together. To win matches you have to play football, a requirement which is sadly lacking at present. I do not consider hoof ball to be football which leaves our forwards chasing lost causes (by the way I thought that Payne was excellent last night whilst playing in the withdrawn position), the midfield is non-existent and the bench has nobody on it who could possibly change the game (Andrews seems to have been totally cast aside). All in all, the side is disjointed, lacking in craft and in free fall. Is it because the squad is not good enough or the management team are not up to it. Hopefully the powers at be will ponder over that. Finally, to have a point deducted for playing a journeyman/mercenary (Simpson) says it all!

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