Apologies in advance for what might be a Hartley style post....
Following the events of yesterday, it feels like something needs to be done about the relationship between the clubs supporters and the club itself. In my opinion, it's at the worst state in the 30 years I've been a season ticket holder and its so sad to see.
Any club needs that bond, especially so at non-league. The most successful period at the club while I've been a supporter was when we won the league with Jamie Day as manager. The supporters and club were so united on and off the pitch and that is vital.
Relationships have been strained since November I would say, but things have really nosedived since the events of the Taunton home game where confrontation now seems to be a regular thing. The manager threatening supporters, others involved in the club having to be held back from fans and yesterday after a disagreement over a comment from the terraces (and what our cameraman believed he heard wasn't correct) led to the ccameraman getting into a confrontation with some of the supporters. None of this should be taking place!
I spoke to Jayke briefly after the game yesterday who was saying that the Dover fans were cheering their side on all game and that we didn't get behind the team. That's correct to some extent, but after previous events, a lot of the passion for the club and team has gone and do you think a lot of supporters are encouraged to do that? I miss at most 2 or 3 games a season home and away, would prefer to spend my money in PVR than at pubs in the High Street, and organise events throughout the year to raise money for WUSA and the club. At the moment, PVR is not a place I particularly want to be, and I find myself leaving there straight after games now. If this is happening for long standing supporters, then what must floating supporters and those coming for the first time think about things? In the Kent online last week there was an interview with the Ebbsfleet manager about them being close to promotion, and a good chunk of the article was him talking about the events after the Taunton game as he was there that night, talking about our club fighting with the supporters. How embarrassing is that!?
Attendances have dropped since October due to the results and performances on the pitch and again this is disappointing as there was a massive buzz around the club earlier in the season and it seemed like things on and off the pitch were on the up. After the Havant game at home in I believe September, I shook Howards hand in the bar after the game and said thank you, as things were on the up, and after the disastrous few years before that, it felt like the club was back.
The performance was dull yesterday, not one shot on target, and I believe the only shot off target led to a decent shout for a penalty. It was a valuable point gained but either way it was a very dull game and small section of supporters booed. Whether people think this is right or wrong, supporters have the right to an opinion without feeling like there's going to be confrontation after the game, which is what happened again. The one thing I will say was positive yesterday as Howard speaking to a small number of supporters after the game after a few words were said and he calmly explained issues that have gone on this year, and things changing over the summer for next season so that things will be better on and off the pitch. I was quite pleased by what I heard, but won't share it as I think that should come officially from the club.
I spoke to Matt yesterday and said I'm happy to meet the owners, board and or manager for a chat to get everything out on the table and discuss things, and I think that's the only way that both sides can get there views across without screaming or shouting. Talking about it in a reasonable way without getting confrontational. This has to happen, we can't go into another season with this divide as it does no-one any good. Especially as a number of long standing supporters are either not renewing their season tickets next season and others are in two minds whether to.
The team we all love is Welling United, and I would love everyone at the club to be one day united again. Whether that's possible or not I don't know, but things have to be better than they are now. PVR is not a fun place to be at the moment and that breaks my heart considering how long my family and I have been supporting the club. as Mr Hartley pointed out several weeks ago, I pointed out in November that something had to change, otherwise we would be dragged into a relegation scrap and look what happened. I'm now saying that steps have to be taken to improve the relations between the club or supporters, or God knows what thinks will be like in a few months time.
Onto Monday, and hopefully there's more to cheer about, on and off the pitch. Let's try to get the win that should hopefully see us safe and then put this season behind us and hopefully look forward.
Deano
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Welling United FC. Banging on the walls of Woking dressing rooms since 1963..
Bang on Deano, the football has been bad enough but the abject disregard to say anything by the board is probably worse. If the comment is"we have nothing to say" then come out and say that, at least it is the start of communication.
History says that in periods of silence like this people start to make things up. This is going to happen and lead to more frustration.
This will be my 30th year as a season ticket holder, graced previously by Abbo scoring against Gateshead the season before to keep us up. This is probably the worse I've experienced at the club since then and we've seen some ups and downs. I'm in the camp of should I renew next season, mostly because of the board who dont seem to even care.
If the board do read this forum, and I hope they do, wake up and smell the coffee before its too late and you have no one left to support the club.
I cant believe how things have developed into the toxic atmosphere we have of late. The feel good factor around the club early season was brilliant. Big away following at Dulwich H. Thrashing Oxford etc. Plus all the promising murmurings about progress off the field. Since then the football has been absolutely dire. Out of the cups early. At no time have we gone on a winning run of more than a couple of games. If that. Most casual fans wont return again because the football is boring. As flat as a pancake. Getting a red card seems to be a badge of honour. Having said that I have never screamed abuse at the players or managers. I always drink at the club. I buy a program. I buy a 50/50 ticket and Im a season ticket holder. I like to think I support the club in general on and off the pitch. I do hope what Polo has said is true and things do improve for next season. I fear for our club if things stay the way they are.
Im also a +30 years supporter, gone through the good times & bad but never as bad as this. For the first time Im asking myself why bother to go? The answer is no longer to support the club but to meet with the guys I stand with and have got to know over the decades. Im certainly not rushing to renew the season ticket with things as they are.
Even when faced with almost certain relegation in some past season, but surviving, there was a spirt and bond between everyone involved. No longer.
My biggest worry now is that if, and its a big if, we survive; WF will tell us how good he is to have saved us, but he got us in this situation!
Well....as Polo always was and has been again...the voice of reason....it really should not be very hard to keep supporters onside!....yes the football may be bad but communication is very easy. Tell us what has happened....Tell us why they back the manager....Tell us what will happen in 2023. Sadly we have too many times heard all the words and never seen the action
We all have differing views but have a right to be heard in a calm, rational manner. I have been lucky enough to get to know Howard, Warren and Jake well over the course of the season and they are good people and I genuinely believe they want what is best for Welling United. For one reason of another things have gone wrong on the pitch and off it during the course of the season. A lot of things have either gone unsaid or lost in translation. As you all know I fully support Warren Feeney and I have been told what has happened behind the scenes and what the club want to do going forward which is why I've called for no managerial change and patience in the hope of stability.
I also think there must be more communication from the club to the fans and there needs to be common ground found where everyone connected to the club can be reunited and this season can be put behind us. In the summer there can be a reset and everyone feeling they belong and are a valued part of the club.
Yesterday I spoke to Jake and said behave yourself. He told me he had been good since Taunton but said someone spat at him that night which angered him. If that is true then that is a disgusting thing to do. I did tell him to turn the other cheek and walk away but perhaps that comes with age and experience. I told him he should have reported the incident and that it was silly to either hurt someone or get hurt over a football match. I don't want to see anyone hurt or in trouble with the law. As Dean rightly says we should all have the right to have and/or express our opinions without fear providing we aren't rude or offensive to anyone. I had several chats with different Dover fans yesterday all of which were good natured and that is what non-league football is all about.
Jake also told me he thought the Dover fans were good and gave 100% backing to their team while our fans didn't. I do agree with that as I think 100% behind the team during the 90 minutes and the politics at the full time whistle. That said the events of recent weeks have changed the dynamics I appreciate that. It wasn't a great game but was a valuable point. Jake said it was one of the most boring games he had seen. It was a pleasant day out in the sunshine though and we saw our team and our friends so glass half full maybe?
They certainly do need to divulge the information they gave to you polo.
Out of interest did you feel it to be sincere and credible.
Reading in-between lines I would predict the blame will still lay at the pre season recruitment to a degree and they will back feeney into next season.
I found the meet the manager evening so helpful, as the chairman was also there, so the combination of the manager and the chairman gave a great joint insight into matters on and off the pitch.
I think that was the first of those held for 18 months. It would be really helpful all round to have another one held as soon as possible, preferably before the new season starts, to have a two way conversation, instead of the current increasing divide between the club and fans that creates lots of new problems that could easily be solved by both sides just sitting down for a sensible clear the air talk.
That evening was really impressive, as it was against the background of a heavy defeat to Dartford and lots of "sack the manager talk", but the evening was a very calm civilised event, Welling at its best, people expressing concerns, politely asking questions, but everyone listening to each other, no anger, no abuse, and I am sure every one there will have got a better understanding just how complicated it is to run the football team on and off the pitch.
Sorry, but I couldn't care less about your mate Jake, nor what he thinks of games.
Lifted this from Dover forum; Not sure what started the kick off with Martin and the 4 lads that were shouting at him at the end of the game by the dugouts, but fair play to him for fronting it out against guys that were just telling him youre s^!t, and just @f@£k off and leave. Ive been as disappointed as most with his performances compared to his ability, but since Brundle has been in charge hes giving it 100% every game and doesnt deserve that sort of abuse.
Wouldnt call that 100% backing, would you?
Perhaps this is something else you and your new mate can discuss?
-- Edited by Wallop on Saturday 8th of April 2023 05:47:19 PM
Yeah, I was there when it kicked off by the dugout. A lot of swearing involved which eventually ended with the fans telling the player to get out of the club and the player said he would do. Albeit I dont think the four guys were regulars, maybe only there to cause trouble. That being said Dover are a club that havent got money and are probably where they should be for a club with a budget like they have. Our budget is the best it has probably ever been, with the players we have we should be in and around the play offs. And we find ourselves in a relegation battle due to a lack of tactical awareness from the management and passion from the players.
This isn't the first time it's been like this, at least towards our manager. I remember being at Havant some years ago when for much of the game the then manager was abused by a section of our support. That's obviously up to the individuals. Personally I don't see that helps the team. Yes it was a shocking performance on Friday but I'm still not going to abuse players or staff as I'm not sure how it's going to make things better. If support can be the 12th man, then our 12th man has had as many red cards as the team. It's even more laughable that some supporters expect an acknowledgement from the players at the end of the game. Yep we commit time and money but if supporters behave like that we shouldn't expect anything in return. We want players who play for each other and the club not just money, so if they hear it why should they acknowledge us? To my mind when times are tough we should get behind the team.
This isn't the first time it's been like this, at least towards our manager. I remember being at Havant some years ago when for much of the game the then manager was abused by a section of our support. That's obviously up to the individuals. Personally I don't see that helps the team. Yes it was a shocking performance on Friday but I'm still not going to abuse players or staff as I'm not sure how it's going to make things better. If support can be the 12th man, then our 12th man has had as many red cards as the team. It's even more laughable that some supporters expect an acknowledgement from the players at the end of the game. Yep we commit time and money but if supporters behave like that we shouldn't expect anything in return. We want players who play for each other and the club not just money, so if they hear it why should they acknowledge us? To my mind when times are tough we should get behind the team.
For me the problem is not with the players. Its soley with the Manager both through his conduct as Welling manager and his ability or lack of it as manager. But if you dont see a problem Courtjester, you do you.
Going back to Polos original post, I dont know how the relationship can be repaired between club and fans without Feeney being removed from the job.
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"Passion for the game.......is Passion for the game" 'Have you got the Spills to pay the bills?'
I think the club is beyond help. With this lot at the helm I dont think the fans can bring it back from the brink alone. They are completely out of control and inept. End goal of them making loads of money from the development and getting out quickly is all we can hope for. Lets hope they havent killed the club by this point.
-- Edited by Muzza1988 on Saturday 8th of April 2023 10:32:14 PM
There's no point in asking, you'll get no reply. Oh just remember, don't decide. I got no reason, it's all too much, you'll always find us out to lunch
Oh we're so pretty. Oh so pretty. We're vacant. Oh we're so pretty, Oh so pretty vacant.
Don't ask us to attend, 'Cause we're not all there. Oh don't pretend 'cause I don't care. I don't believe illusions 'cause too much is real, So stop your cheap comment, 'Cause we know what we feel.
I am also a 35+ year supporter who went home & away throughout the the initial Conference years but have been twice this season which should, together with the growing number of long standing supporters on here thinking of not going in the future, speak volumes but I genuinely don't think anyone cares. We have been alienated by the club, they don't seem to care so why should we? Then you have Feeney who is so utterly divisive and deluded about his abilities that it is almost laughable - but when he says this stuff he knows he won't be sacked. Alan tells us that he has been "told things" that means he totally supports Feeney, I would love to know what this is. Why can't we all know this? Which leads me on to club communication. It has always been a club where if you knew the right people you would know what is going on, as the formal communication was practically non existent, and that tradition has been carried on very successfully since the Hobbins. Ironically in the age of easy communication, it is worse than it has ever been. We can see players "getting match ready" (which ironically they never seem to be) on the ever increasingly childish twitter feed but we can't be told anything meaningful. The natural assumption from the secretive nature of things is that there is something to hide. Why is Feeney untouchable? What is the plan - is it just the redevelopment? The football is clearly not a priority as they seem happy to risk a relegation & loss of support without any comment or action. I just don't get it.
I am also a 35+ year supporter who went home & away throughout the the initial Conference years but have been twice this season which should, together with the growing number of long standing supporters on here thinking of not going in the future, speak volumes but I genuinely don't think anyone cares. We have been alienated by the club, they don't seem to care so why should we? Then you have Feeney who is so utterly divisive and deluded about his abilities that it is almost laughable - but when he says this stuff he knows he won't be sacked. Alan tells us that he has been "told things" that means he totally supports Feeney, I would love to know what this is. Why can't we all know this? Which leads me on to club communication. It has always been a club where if you knew the right people you would know what is going on, as the formal communication was practically non existent, and that tradition has been carried on very successfully since the Hobbins. Ironically in the age of easy communication, it is worse than it has ever been. We can see players "getting match ready" (which ironically they never seem to be) on the ever increasingly childish twitter feed but we can't be told anything meaningful. The natural assumption from the secretive nature of things is that there is something to hide. Why is Feeney untouchable? What is the plan - is it just the redevelopment? The football is clearly not a priority as they seem happy to risk a relegation & loss of support without any comment or action. I just don't get it.
Good post.
All the Feeney fans out there... your replies to that please.
__________________
"Passion for the game.......is Passion for the game" 'Have you got the Spills to pay the bills?'
I am also a 35+ year supporter who went home & away throughout the the initial Conference years but have been twice this season which should, together with the growing number of long standing supporters on here thinking of not going in the future, speak volumes but I genuinely don't think anyone cares. We have been alienated by the club, they don't seem to care so why should we? Then you have Feeney who is so utterly divisive and deluded about his abilities that it is almost laughable - but when he says this stuff he knows he won't be sacked. Alan tells us that he has been "told things" that means he totally supports Feeney, I would love to know what this is. Why can't we all know this? Which leads me on to club communication. It has always been a club where if you knew the right people you would know what is going on, as the formal communication was practically non existent, and that tradition has been carried on very successfully since the Hobbins. Ironically in the age of easy communication, it is worse than it has ever been. We can see players "getting match ready" (which ironically they never seem to be) on the ever increasingly childish twitter feed but we can't be told anything meaningful. The natural assumption from the secretive nature of things is that there is something to hide. Why is Feeney untouchable? What is the plan - is it just the redevelopment? The football is clearly not a priority as they seem happy to risk a relegation & loss of support without any comment or action. I just don't get it.
Brian, doff my hat to you sir. Really well articulated post and I agree with every word.
We all have differing views but have a right to be heard in a calm, rational manner. I have been lucky enough to get to know Howard, Warren and Jake well over the course of the season and they are good people and I genuinely believe they want what is best for Welling United. For one reason of another things have gone wrong on the pitch and off it during the course of the season. A lot of things have either gone unsaid or lost in translation. As you all know I fully support Warren Feeney and I have been told what has happened behind the scenes and what the club want to do going forward which is why I've called for no managerial change and patience in the hope of stability.
I also think there must be more communication from the club to the fans and there needs to be common ground found where everyone connected to the club can be reunited and this season can be put behind us. In the summer there can be a reset and everyone feeling they belong and are a valued part of the club.
Yesterday I spoke to Jake and said behave yourself. He told me he had been good since Taunton but said someone spat at him that night which angered him. If that is true then that is a disgusting thing to do. I did tell him to turn the other cheek and walk away but perhaps that comes with age and experience. I told him he should have reported the incident and that it was silly to either hurt someone or get hurt over a football match. I don't want to see anyone hurt or in trouble with the law. As Dean rightly says we should all have the right to have and/or express our opinions without fear providing we aren't rude or offensive to anyone. I had several chats with different Dover fans yesterday all of which were good natured and that is what non-league football is all about.
Jake also told me he thought the Dover fans were good and gave 100% backing to their team while our fans didn't. I do agree with that as I think 100% behind the team during the 90 minutes and the politics at the full time whistle. That said the events of recent weeks have changed the dynamics I appreciate that. It wasn't a great game but was a valuable point. Jake said it was one of the most boring games he had seen. It was a pleasant day out in the sunshine though and we saw our team and our friends so glass half full maybe?
What have they told you? Provide some credibility please. My assumption will be they will throw the recruitment and academy card as the sum of all the problems.
Remember we're also told the players haven't played at this lever which for 80% or more of the squad just isn't correct.
So which excuse is it this time which doesn't seem to have affected the likes of braintree, Chelmsford, Bath and other teams who were around us last season.
IMO the reason for the lack of communication from the club is No news is good news. There is nothing positive to report. No organisation will report negative news. Lets face it rumours of the gates of PVR being padlocked by bailiffs isnt news you want made public. The club are not going to explain that they cant afford a training venue and will now train on the already overused pitch. Its obvious that there are now financial restraints in place. Why would the club want to make that public. Gary Fiore. Where is he? etc etc etc. Dont get me started on the manager and skippy
-- Edited by Riverstown on Saturday 8th of April 2023 10:11:28 PM
In March I passed an e mail to 2 board members, and asked them to pass it to the other board members. To save space here I have edited it a lot below to mostly bullet points, but nothing has changed since then. When the board look back, they will realise keeping the manager on was the worst business and footballing decision they have made, as tens of thousands of pounds will have been lost due to lowering attendances and the resulting reduced revenue.
1. Atrocious record of failure as a manager
He has a track record of relegation and dismissal, and I have seen nothing to suggest he has learned any lessons, so is just repeating his failure with Welling, and will get us relegated unless he is quickly replaced.
He is deceptive, presenting his career in an inaccurately positive light. His actual league record is:
Newport P 34 W7 D8 L 19 20.59% wins sacked club relegated
Ards P 11 W 3 D 4 L 4 27.7% wins sacked, replacements managed to keep the team up
Pirin league results in his last season before he joined us was P 17 W3 D3 L 11 F 21 A 31 17% wins
L L W L L L L D D W L L W L D L L sacked club relegated
Our results this season show a similar lack of success
D L W W W L W W W D W D D L D L W D L W L D D W D L D L L W W L L W D D L W L D L D D
Welling league career last season and this season P 45 W13 D 15 L 17 28% wins
2. Tactical weakness
His style of football is poor, there is no clear style of play, no use of the wings, no clever supporting play in midfield, instead he relies on aimless long high clearances towards the opposition box and losing the ball often as a result. This creates boring football, so fans stop coming to watch our games, as seeing unskilful football is unattractive.
3. Publicly abusive behaviour to players and impact on player retention
4. Failure to retain players
The club has said it aims to retain a core of players for next season. I find it hard to imagine many will want to stay for another season of Warrens abuse and poor use of the squad. Only Chi, Aaron, Sam, Jamie and Taylor stayed with us from the previous season, and Sam quickly went leaving only 4 players wanting to stay for a second season of Warren. I have no doubt we will lose top players that would have stayed with us if we were replacing Warren.
5. Failure to reach target of top half of the table, failure to be in touch with play off spots
6. Poor season second half results suggest poor prospects for next season
7. Abusive contemptuous behaviour towards fans
I have rarely seen a manager less popular with fans than Warren, nearly every fan wants him to go. That is because he is his own worst enemy, always criticising fans, saying they dont understand football, saying they make noise he doesnt listen to. Fans are the customers of a business, so him criticising the customers like this is absolutely hopeless management. It is why attendances drop, as he creates such a toxic environment, abusive towards players, fans, match officials It is not healthy to have a manager who is so hostile and contemptuous towards the fans.
8. Hopelessly poor team discipline and suspensions
The team disciplinary record is by far the worst in the league, and the top 3 most booked players all are Welling players. Warren is so abusive to officials that he creates a toxic environment that his players carry on in the pitch, always arguing and getting booked. Warren does nothing to address any of this, as he is a weak manager who avoids confrontation. The suspensions will have a negative impact on our results.
At end of day when you read people like Dean saying stuff like this then you know it's bad or even a lot worse than that. If MG still reads the forum he'd probably having a right old chuckle.
What an open and honest assessment from Dean. Spot on and thanks for sharing. If there is a Mr Welling then it is Dean. Gentleman
I have been going to Welling on off since the early 90s and I must say that the past few games I have attended the experience hasnt been great. I go to support the local team but also to have the craic with some other fellow Wings fans, over a few beers, mainly in the Door Hinge. I dont expect much in return for my few dollars entrance fee but to hear of some of the goings on is not only disappointing but also deters the attracting future fans attending the games. The Welling faithful/500 have been badly let down and taken for granted. The club will move on and hopefully we will have some decent brand of football in the not too distant future.
I dont know what the owners/board are up to. I dont know why they havent acted to sort out the football side of the club. ie getting someone in who knows what they are doing. I suspect WF has a water tight contract and it will cost a lot to terminate it. Its a fact that if the team were playing well and winning more often than not all this toxicity wouldnt be happening IMO. Us as supporters are easily pleased. All we want is decent football and a team that can win more games than they lose. On what is believed to be our very respectable budget we should easily be achieving that.
I hope when the dust settles on this season, the owners will have learned tons of lessons.
Firstly, look into the whole track record of any potential manager. Don't just go by their self serving spin, but look at every season they have managed, to get a full picture, and see how many were successful or unsuccessful. The Dartford manager has a winners attitude of "If I dont get promotion sack me, as I have got promotion with all my teams". Miles more attractive and motivating for players and fans than an aimless, "we will take each game as it comes, and see where it gets us" view that we have at present.
Secondly, what is the potential manager's knowledge of this division? Kuttrieb gets what this division is about, so does Dowson. Warren doesn't get this division at all. He is used to excellence from his time in higher divisions. But our players aren't excellent, some of them make mistakes, some aren't consistent, that is why they are playing in the 6th Division. So him moaning at them for mistakes and inconsistency is missing the point, which is of course they will do this, that is why they are with us. But... THEY ARE DOING THEIR BEST.
Thirdly, looking ahead to next season, Warren's position is unsustainable, yes, he could come up with crap about how he is playing players he was given to manage, but his hopeless lack of control over the teams discipline (and his own) and his alienation of the fans, and the players (can anyone remember a time when we have scored and the players have celebrated with the manager? No, me neither) has created a toxic atmosphere, and there is NO improvement, the players dont get better under him. Proof? Can anyone say a single player who has got better as the season has gone on?
Finally, I get a feeling we may need a relatively inexperienced manager, as football is catch 22, the available ones are bad, which is why they are available, the good ones are unavailable as they are wanted by their current team. So rather than making the repeat mistake of appointing an experienced manager with a bad track record, we need to be creative, and appoint an up and coming manager whose potential hasn't yet been spotted by others. The more I see of Sam Cox, the more impressed I am with him. He is honest, I see his social media, and he is straightforward, if something was bad he says it was bad, if he made a mistake he says he made a mistake and apologises. That shows he learns from mistakes, not just keep making the same ones over and over again or avoiding responsibility. He is comfortable with social media, doesn't see it as an enemy. I've seen him telling the players to push up in matches, which is spot on, as we play so deep and defensively set up it is almost impossible to score. If he has a really experienced assistant manager to advise him I think it could be a fantastic choice. Several other teams in our division are being successfully managed by managers in their first management job. The players respond to him. Yes, it would be a gamble, but less of a gamble than many other choices. Or, if the board is cautious, have Sam as the assistant manager, helping him learn the ropes to be able to take over in due course. But the casual fans have already disappeared with Warren, if he stays more committed fans will disappear too, as you can't irresponsibly keep serving crap and think the customer will want to come back. The 500 became 1000, then back to 500, and could drop to 400, or less. Then the bad recurring cycle of no money for good players, bad football, bad results, low crowds.
So many things I want to say but as briefly as I can.
Brian, you have only been twice this season so to judge what is happening isn't fair. Away we are generally better than at home
If anyone wants to know what is going on. Go to the upstairs bar and speak to the people that run the club and manage it. If you are polite and not abusive as we saw at meet the chairman and manager they will answer your questions and talk football.
They want to get past this season, go back to training 3 evenings a week. This will open up a bigger pool of players although we also need to accept the players that are full time professional and want to stay that way will find a new club. The club want a 4G pitch to bring in more revenue and improve the quality of the team and make the club sustainable. They will also tell you that a lot of the squad Warren didn't recruit and he is working with what he was given. The style of football is down to the fact that Warren thinks it's the best style for this group. I don't think you can go from zero 2021/22 to hero 2022/33 it takes time. No one not Warren, the players, the management, Howard, rest of the board or us fans want us to lose games. I truly believe everyone is doing their best.
Telling us the plan was to finish mid-table I think is honest not unambitious. Realistically the club doesn't have the finances to compete in the National League and I doubt the ground would pass inspection. We would get heavily beaten every week. Look at Maidstone United. That isn't to say the board don't ever want to get there. I have been told it just needs to be achieved gradually step by step with strong foundations. That makes sense to me and I believe it. To get their before we are ready for the challenge could be a disaster.
Ultimately, he gets to choose the manager he wants and if he is ploughing in all the money that is his right. We only pay £15.00 admission so why should we think we can tell him what to do. Yes we can make our feelings known and even protest by staying away and that would force Howard to think about what he thinks he would like to do.
No-one mentions that Warren saved us from relegation last season or the fact we are better off now because last season we were praying for results to go our way to stay up this season we are in control and if we get our results it doesn't matter what other clubs results are. Neither does anyone mention Warren actually won a league title in Bulgaria.
The club want to identify players they want to keep and build on that core annually to gradually improve. They want to improve the stadium. They have increased the sponsorship. We do have an U23 team now and a successful Ladies team. These are positive steps forward. I have maintained all along there isn't that much wrong because there aren't many games where Welling have been thrashed. We draw a lot and lose by the odd goal. Given time I think it can be changed to Welling winning more than they lose. Look at Friday 0-0 away at Dover. It was a blatant penalty if that is awarded and we score we win 1-0 another 3 points and tonight we have 51 points. That was a poor decision by a referee these are the fine margins Howard and Warren talk about.
If Dover fans were moaning it was after the final whistle, again, I have always said that is a supporters right but the point as made earlier booing the players, moaning at them is counter productive and causes more harm. Today everyone was behind the team and we won.
-- Edited by Polo on Tuesday 11th of April 2023 09:09:52 AM
Having to bail the club out for the tax bill at the last minute suggests that the budget was too high. If we couldn't afford the players why was such a large squad (over 20 players) signed at the beginning of the season.
Was this down to Fiore? Does he still have a role?
I am not sure who is doing what at the club and what roles people have. Communication with the fans might help.
Thanks Alan. However, if the manager decided to take a job where he didn't recruit and knew it would be a problem for him, more fool him. Anywayss the players recruited have had prior track records or successes elsewhere so I don't buy they aren't coachable.
Agree with the above post. Surely as an owner you have control over finances to be proactive to financial threats opposed to suggesting I have paid 25k to.save you? Perhaps I'm being naive.
I guess if things don't workout for next season at least these excuses will be void.
-- Edited by Jimmy on Monday 10th of April 2023 11:16:19 PM
So many things I want to say but as briefly as I can.
Brian, you have only been twice this season so to judge what is happening isn't fair. Away we are generally better than at home
If anyone wants to know what is going on. Go to the upstairs bar and speak to the people that run the club and manage it. If you are polite and not abusive as we saw at meet the chairman and manager they will answer your questions and talk football.
They want to get past this season, go back to training 3 evenings a week. This will open up a bigger pool of players although we also need to accept the players that are full time professional and want to stay that way will find a new club. The club want a 4G pitch to bring in more revenue and improve the quality of the team and make the club sustainable. They will also tell you that a lot of the squad Warren didn't recruit and he is working with what he was given. The style of football is down to the fact that Warren thinks it's the best style for this group. I don't think you can go from zero 2021/22 to hero 2022/33 it takes time. No one not Warren, the players, the management, Howard, rest of the board or us fans want us to lose games. I truly believe everyone is doing their best.
Telling us the plan was to finish mid-table I think is honest not unambitious. Realistically the club doesn't have the finances to compete in the National League and I doubt the ground would pass inspection. We would get heavily beaten every week. Look at Maidstone United. That isn't to say the board don't ever want to get there. I have been told it just needs to be achieved gradually step by step with strong foundations. That makes sense to me and I believe it. To get their before we are ready for the challenge could be a disaster.
Ultimately, he gets to choose the manager he wants and if he is ploughing in all the money that is his right. We only pay £15.00 admission so why should we think we can tell him what to do. Yes we can make our feelings known and even protest by staying away and that would force Howard to think about what he thinks he would like to do.
No-one mentions that Warren saved us from relegation last season or the fact we are better off now because last season we were praying for results to go our way to stay up this season we are in control and if we get our results it doesn't matter what other clubs results are. Neither does anyone mention Warren actually won a league title in Bulgaria.
The club want to identify players they want to keep and build on that core annually to gradually improve. They want to improve the stadium. They have increased the sponsorship. We do have an U23 team now and a successful Ladies team. These are positive steps forward. I have maintained all along there isn't that much wrong because there aren't many games where Welling have been thrashed. We draw a lot and lose by the odd goal. Given time I think it can be changed to Welling winning more than they lose. Look at Friday 0-0 away at Dover. It was a blatant penalty if that is awarded and we score we win 1-0 another 3 points and tonight we have 51 points. That was a poor decision by a referee these are the fine margins Howard and Warren talk about.
If Dover fans were moaning it was after the final whistle, again, I have always said that is a supporters right but the point as made earlier booing the players, moaning at them is counter productive and causes more harm. Today everyone was behind the team and we won.
-- Edited by Polo on Tuesday 11th of April 2023 09:09:52 AM
But by his own admission, if Feeney hadn't of messed us about as to whether he was coming back this season maybe he would have had more of his own players at the start of the season, so he gets no pass from me there! Also he's had most of the season to clear out the players he doesn't like and bring in players he does.
I think he's coached them in such a way that many have lost the creative spark they've had before playing for us this season. Look at a couple of players who have left and looked infinitely better players than when they was with us, such as Aransibia and Alexander.
it's very easy to say we will do better next year, we heard similar things at the end of last season. If we continue our current form into next season we'll be cut adrift by Christmas. I don't have any confidence Feeney will be able to build a team from scratch and turn things around.
The important point that no one is looking at is the collective financial input of the fans each season is likely to be higher than the owners, so all this contempt and ignoring the fans is totally mistaken.
To roughly show the point, let's say we have 500 fans a home match for 23 games at £15 a ticket. That is 500 x 23 x 15 = £172,500 the fans are putting into the club each season. The actual figure will be higher, as there are cup games, refreshments, etc, but just showing how the collective input of fans is very high and important. I doubt the owners are putting in £172,500+ each season.
I guess our hardcore 500 reduced to 400 yesterday, and many long term members of the 500 are considering stopping attending, disillusioned by a manager and board that totally ignore the fans views and keep them in the dark about the future plans, as it is kind of crazy to have plans coming out via repeated bar conversations. I was having an interesting talk yesterday with a fan of 36 years, who is disillusioned with Welling's owner and manager, and now watches Ebbsfleet. That kind of disappearance will keep on unless trust is regained and two way communications happen. A plastic pitch and the manager doing all the signings wont fix the problems the people involved cant see they make.
It is an odd business model, treat the staff (players) poorly, treat the customer (fans) contemptuously, then wonder why things are underperforming, and takings are down.
If anyone wants to know what is going on. Go to the upstairs bar and speak to the people that run the club and manage it. If you are polite and not abusive as we saw at meet the chairman and manager they will answer your questions and talk football.
Rather than 500 people go and speak to the owner in the bar, wouldn't it make more sense to either hold a meeting or open up some communication with the fans?
What a good idea Graham, how about forming some kind of supporters group with an elected spokesperson... oh wait, what is this Welling United Supporters Association we used to hear about? Now defunct? Their mouthpiece continues to deafen us with silence. #oneofthem
-- Edited by bexleylion on Tuesday 11th of April 2023 01:36:48 PM
Here is an idea why don't 100 of the fans who currently dislike the way the club is being run each put £10,000 in to shared ownership.
You can buy the current owners out with your combined million pounds. Elect your own board and chairman. Hire a manager.
The new manager can then recruit his playing staff. Form his team and squad.
If it all goes horribly wrong on the pitch and Welling United are struggling again, then the remaining 400 fans can start moaning at you and criticising everything you have done or are trying to do.
You will feel you've done your best and know exactly how the club is running financially and what you can or can't afford. How will that make you feel?
I say this tongue in cheek to demonstrate it can't be easy to run a football club but it seems a thankless task to me as there will always be dissatisfied fans but you are doing everything you can. None of us know what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes until we have to.
I might say I like Ade Azeez he should play every week. You might say I prefer Stefan Payne, Kyril Lisbie or uncle Tom Cobbley. You can't win, we all think differently.
At some point there has to be an owner and a manager and fans who all pull together and trust each other. We can't keep chopping and changing and hoping yet another regime will be better.
The most important things I believe is you treat people as you wish to be treated. Be kind and considerate, you don't know what is happening to them so don't judge them harshly.
Here is an idea why don't 100 of the fans who currently dislike the way the club is being run each put £10,000 in to shared ownership.
You can buy the current owners out with your combined million pounds. Elect your own board and chairman. Hire a manager.
The new manager can then recruit his playing staff. Form his team and squad.
If it all goes horribly wrong on the pitch and Welling United are struggling again, then the remaining 400 fans can start moaning at you and criticising everything you have done or are trying to do.
You will feel you've done your best and know exactly how the club is running financially and what you can or can't afford. How will that make you feel?
I say this tongue in cheek to demonstrate it can't be easy to run a football club but it seems a thankless task to me as there will always be dissatisfied fans but you are doing everything you can. None of us know what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes until we have to.
I might say I like Ade Azeez he should play every week. You might say I prefer Stefan Payne, Kyril Lisbie or uncle Tom Cobbley. You can't win, we all think differently.
At some point there has to be an owner and a manager and fans who all pull together and trust each other. We can't keep chopping and changing and hoping yet another regime will be better.
The most important things I believe is you treat people as you wish to be treated. Be kind and considerate, you don't know what is happening to them so don't judge them harshly.
Alan, because you are drinking buddies with the board you are blind to their shortcomings.
1. They have ignored the poor results under the current manager that have been happening since October. A change should have been made around new year, when it was clear there is no idea how to improve things.
2. The owner and manager similarly have a far too cosy relationship that creates complacency. That complacency then repeats in the team. This is supposed to be a business, you don't keep underperforming people in a job just because you like them.
3. Poor results from the complacency means reduced attendances, lower income, cheaper less effective signings.
4. "At some point there has to be an owner and a manager and fans who all pull together and trust each other." Except the manager does not trust the fans and abusively says the fans dont understand football and are just irrelevant noise. So it is not the fans that are the problem, but the manager. And the owner makes no effort to connect with fans, apart from those drinking in the bar after matches.
5. "We can't keep chopping and changing and hoping yet another regime will be better." It is not a question of change of owners, more a question of the current regime being more directly communicative and responsive to fans' viewpoints.
Of course the fans are going to moan when they see the above 5 damaging things happening.
You sticking your head in the sand to these problems and thinking the solution is to keep giving underperforming people more time is precisely why this mess is carrying on and why relegation next season would be little surprise.
Alan, because you are drinking buddies with the board you are blind to their shortcomings.
1. They have ignored the poor results under the current manager that have been happening since October. A change should have been made around new year, when it was clear there is no idea how to improve things.
2. The owner and manager similarly have a far too cosy relationship that creates complacency. That complacency then repeats in the team. This is supposed to be a business, you don't keep underperforming people in a job just because you like them.
3. Poor results from the complacency means reduced attendances, lower income, cheaper less effective signings.
4. "At some point there has to be an owner and a manager and fans who all pull together and trust each other." Except the manager does not trust the fans and abusively says the fans dont understand football and are just irrelevant noise. So it is not the fans that are the problem, but the manager. And the owner makes no effort to connect with fans, apart from those drinking in the bar after matches.
5. "We can't keep chopping and changing and hoping yet another regime will be better." It is not a question of change of owners, more a question of the current regime being more directly communicative and responsive to fans' viewpoints.
Of course the fans are going to moan when they see the above 5 damaging things happening.
You sticking your head in the sand to these problems and thinking the solution is to keep giving underperforming people more time is precisely why this mess is carrying on and why relegation next season would be little surprise.
I agree with all of this Johnny.
Another point Id add is the fact that they continue to have a guy on the bench who wanted to jump in the crowd and have a fight with the fans. What other club would allow this? Thats ignoring the fact that hes only on the bench because hes marrying the owners daughter and hes mates with Feeney. What manager of any standing would allow someone on the bench who is not offering anything to the game. This is the man who wants to make the club more professional too! What a joke that is.
