Our record has been poor against Dartford, just hope we put in the effort and play how we did against Yeovil. I can't stomach another Bath performance or heavy defeat. Before the cup game this season we had won just 1 out of 15 against Dartford! A fact lost on some Darts fans who didn't get the irony of the mugs that were produced!
Need Tanga and Adom to hurt them out wide but defence needs to be switched on after leaking 4 on Saturday.
Oh it was irony? Do you really want to pretend that? They way we are right now if we lost both games its not a complete shock for us but dont kid yourself with that mug. it was your cup final and the cups an embarrassment.
to be fair and put it into context were so poor right now it is our cup final too.
Felt both teams were nervous at the start - we were the better team in the first half, Dartford better in the second half, silly mistake cost us again. neither keeper was troubled to much was going to be a 0-0 or 1-0 either way in my opinion - being polite the Referee made some strange decisions.
-- Edited by morph on Tuesday 26th of December 2023 06:18:22 PM
Dartford in the first half looked worn down, and short of ideas, while we played with lots of purpose. I know I wont be agreed with, but the first half was in my view some of our best football this season. The second half was a turnaround, they suddenly looked as if they were trying to win the match. Our problems with inaccurate shooting held us back once again, created tons of openings, but couldn't put them away.
Just like against Eastbourne, a draw would have been a fair result. In the first half of the season we didnt seem to have any shape in attack with one up front, I really enjoyed seeing Tristan and Adam in attack with Antony behind them, that combination is well worth using again, as we'd lost control of the game before Adam and Antony came on, and we ended up the team more likely to score with that triangle of players.
Defensively we looked miles better with Crossley back, on the way into the match I had a quick chat with a Welling insider and asked them for their views on the season so far, as I was interested to see how they see it, and they said we've been badly affected by injuries, which has a knock on effect on the other players as we have to play players that havent built up understandings. That is spot on, Crossley coming back gave us a really solid defence that worked together well, and the first half of the season was almost one of what could have been, as if we'd not had all the extensive injuries to Adam, Jack, Crossley, Mitchell we would have been much higher up the table.
There was lots of context to the match, Dartford's recent results have been poor, their fans don't like the football they are playing and want the manager sacked, attendances are poor, and chatting with someone in the know from Dartford there seemed strong signs that if Dartford lost both games against us their manager would be sacked. Odd as going into the match they were 6 points below play offs and 6 points above relegation, and had finished second last season, but they seem to have the play offs as a minimum expectation and wont accept less. Still, there was some good news, the Dartford guy told me the real reason why Steve King was sacked, which always puzzled me, and annoyed me that I must be the last to know, and now I finally know that I can just hope all the more Eastbourne appoint him and that we never do again!
Dartford in the first half looked worn down, and short of ideas, while we played with lots of purpose. I know I wont be agreed with, but the first half was in my view some of our best football this season. The second half was a turnaround, they suddenly looked as if they were trying to win the match. Our problems with inaccurate shooting held us back once again, created tons of openings, but couldn't put them away.
Just like against Eastbourne, a draw would have been a fair result. In the first half of the season we didnt seem to have any shape in attack with one up front, I really enjoyed seeing Tristan and Adam in attack with Antony behind them, that combination is well worth using again, as we'd lost control of the game before Adam and Antony came on, and we ended up the team more likely to score with that triangle of players.
Defensively we looked miles better with Crossley back, on the way into the match I had a quick chat with a Welling insider and asked them for their views on the season so far, as I was interested to see how they see it, and they said we've been badly affected by injuries, which has a knock on effect on the other players as we have to play players that havent built up understandings. That is spot on, Crossley coming back gave us a really solid defence that worked together well, and the first half of the season was almost one of what could have been, as if we'd not had all the extensive injuries to Adam, Jack, Crossley, Mitchell we would have been much higher up the table.
There was lots of context to the match, Dartford's recent results have been poor, their fans don't like the football they are playing and want the manager sacked, attendances are poor, and chatting with someone in the know from Dartford there seemed strong signs that if Dartford lost both games against us their manager would be sacked. Odd as going into the match they were 6 points below play offs and 6 points above relegation, and had finished second last season, but they seem to have the play offs as a minimum expectation and wont accept less. Still, there was some good news, the Dartford guy told me the real reason why Steve King was sacked, which always puzzled me, and annoyed me that I must be the last to know, and now I finally know that I can just hope all the more Eastbourne appoint him and that we never do again!
You can try to analyse why we dont win games as much as you want. You can say we should have done this or that Or what whatever. Unfortunately our team doesn't believe they can win a game. They have lost before the first whistle. We lost today against a pile of turd. Sorry Dartford fans but you are no better than us. Two fking awful teams boring the ars of a half decent crowd.
Dartford in the first half looked worn down, and short of ideas, while we played with lots of purpose. I know I wont be agreed with, but the first half was in my view some of our best football this season. The second half was a turnaround, they suddenly looked as if they were trying to win the match. Our problems with inaccurate shooting held us back once again, created tons of openings, but couldn't put them away.
Just like against Eastbourne, a draw would have been a fair result. In the first half of the season we didnt seem to have any shape in attack with one up front, I really enjoyed seeing Tristan and Adam in attack with Antony behind them, that combination is well worth using again, as we'd lost control of the game before Adam and Antony came on, and we ended up the team more likely to score with that triangle of players.
Defensively we looked miles better with Crossley back, on the way into the match I had a quick chat with a Welling insider and asked them for their views on the season so far, as I was interested to see how they see it, and they said we've been badly affected by injuries, which has a knock on effect on the other players as we have to play players that havent built up understandings. That is spot on, Crossley coming back gave us a really solid defence that worked together well, and the first half of the season was almost one of what could have been, as if we'd not had all the extensive injuries to Adam, Jack, Crossley, Mitchell we would have been much higher up the table.
There was lots of context to the match, Dartford's recent results have been poor, their fans don't like the football they are playing and want the manager sacked, attendances are poor, and chatting with someone in the know from Dartford there seemed strong signs that if Dartford lost both games against us their manager would be sacked. Odd as going into the match they were 6 points below play offs and 6 points above relegation, and had finished second last season, but they seem to have the play offs as a minimum expectation and wont accept less. Still, there was some good news, the Dartford guy told me the real reason why Steve King was sacked, which always puzzled me, and annoyed me that I must be the last to know, and now I finally know that I can just hope all the more Eastbourne appoint him and that we never do again!
You can try to analyse why we dont win games as much as you want. You can say we should have done this or that Or what whatever. Unfortunately our team doesn't believe they can win a game. They have lost before the first whistle. We lost today against a pile of turd. Sorry Dartford fans but you are no better than us. Two fking awful teams boring the ars of a half decent crowd.
Your criticism of our team is fair.
However, you are worse than us.
Im not saying this as something to be proud of but you are not as good as us even if were poor too.
The bottom line is we have 22 games to go, which is 66 points to play for, and need 30 of these points to hit 50 points, which would be enough for safety most seasons.
But needing to get roughly half the remaining points isn't that realistic. But the teams above us have spun runs of 3 wins in a row to pull out of the relegation zone, so it is up to us to do that sort of thing too. Dartford offered so little for most of the match today that we have a decent chance to beat them in a couple of days.
The trouble was Welling didn't create many clear cut chances, but thanks to some sloppy defending they could have conceded more than just one goal. Sometimes it is safer to just clear the ball downfield instead of playing short passes at the back.
A very poor game of football played between two very poor teams. I was shocked how poor Dartford were because they usually have a very good team. I know our team is poor. I used to take consolation in the fact at least we played good football but even that has gone out the window now. We gave the ball away to cheaply in our own last third trying to play out from the back. If you can't be motivated by playing in a local derby in front of a large crowd when can you be? If the budget isn't big enough to sustain NLS football I feel sorry for Danny it must be like hitting your head against a brick wall. So I'm not saying it lightly and it may not be his fault but for whatever reason Danny Bloor and his management team have done a poor job thus far. I kind of think the owners would like to see Welling United relegated. Wind the club up as non viable. Quickly make their money by redeveloping the ground. I can see a new Welling United AFC or something rising as a phoenix club in Footscray Road, Eltham. Something is seriously wrong and as I've said before I just can't see us getting the points we need. Nothing I saw today makes me feel I'm wrong as the points gap to safety widens. I've heard excuse after excuse but ultimately 4 league wins from 24 games is disgraceful. Isthmian league here we come.
Verdict: Terrible game, terrible performance, terrible result
-- Edited by Alan on Wednesday 27th of December 2023 02:52:27 PM
Alan's thought about the motives of the owners rings a chord, as I sometimes wonder if their reason and priority for involvement with Welling United is the football club, and the development a far lower priority, or their priority the development with far less concern over the football club. The way money has been cut back on the team tells a big story. Danny's interview after the game was admirably very honest as ever and I guess he must be sick of being the fall guy for the underinvestment in the team, as shown by his mention he didnt know where we would be training, and that we havent replaced Mitchell Dickinson. Why the hell havent we?!
Once it became apparent Mitchell's injuries would keep him out longer than initially expected we havent signed anyone to replace him, and the damage of that cost cutting is evident in the goals conceded and resorting to Taylor Curran. Just as a quick note on him to explain a reason apart from just poor passing and poor closing down I dont value him, I remember seeing him before a home game where he wasnt in the squad, so had come in, done some warm up fitness, then was leaving the ground with his family. His lack of interest in the team if he wasn't playing was so unimpressive. A total contrast to Mitchell Dickinson and Burchill commitment, who come to watch us even though they are injured so cant play. He has lived off the excuse lack of match fitness, but now he has had a run of games has shown really he is just not sharp enough for this level.
The Dartford goal was just a long ball forward where they got a lucky misdirection from our defender. But it made me wonder, clearly we need to try something different as what we have done with one up front all season long has not worked, with only 4 league wins in 5 months.
Obviously the 2 up front needs to be used, as it has been needed all season long, but Danny has an Achilles heel of being fixed on only playing one up front, which is his and the teams downfall, which I hope he realises before it is too late.
But the other change could be unpleasant, but necessary in the short term, of playing incredibly direct football concentrating on whacking long balls up to the 2 strikers, as it wouldnt be pretty to watch, but would create more goals. We have often been beaten by teams that just knock long balls up to strikers, and it is boring to watch, but pragmatically survival in this division is more important than pretty football and we could go back to proper football once we are safe. I remember a team I like had a wonder season, and someone said it was because they had a simple tactic of chipping the ball over the defence for the two strikers to run onto. I'd been to all that season, and hadnt seen it being as simple as that, but actually lots of it was like that. So long ball as a pragmatic answer.
Absolutely awful, couldn't pass, couldn't tackle, couldn't shoot, like watching a bunch of under 8s. Got to win 10 out of 20 at least to stay up now, not going to happen, ryman league it is, which BTW we won't be coming out of for a while.
So 1) relegated (2) Yes jimmie I did speak to dowson before you ask. And 3, will the real BuzzStop please stand up.
Rather than sack Bloor, as some have been suggesting on Twitter, we should offer him a new contract until the end of next season. Then offer contracts to the players he wants to keep for next season.
In effect what I'm saying is that this season is likley to end in relegation. Bloor has tried his best in testing circumstances and we should back him for next season. If he doesn't want to stay then he may as well go now.
If we have a situation where we have a new manger building a new squad again then I think it's more than likely we will go down again.
I don't disagree about potentially playing more direct football, especially as the pitches are now cutting up. I'm assuming that Abrahams will soon be leaving so I'd stick Kain up top and Roscrow could join him when fully fit. But is our midfield suited to playing in a 4?
But as I said the coming and going of players should now be with a view in mind to next season.
__________________
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh When the Wingssssss
Winning 10 games is possible but unlikely on current form. Personally once we know more about our fate in a few games time I would consider introducing some of our talented under 23 players into the first team and gain experience of first team football with next season in mind.
-- Edited by morph on Wednesday 27th of December 2023 03:24:36 PM
As mentioned above I think there is some logic in looking at the long term. Danny knows the League, his time at Eastbourne proves that and really could we do better . Probably the best chance of at least a competitive season next year in Step 3 is keeping him, if he wants to stay.
As mentioned above I think there is some logic in looking at the long term. Danny knows the League, his time at Eastbourne proves that and really could we do better . Probably the best chance of at least a competitive season next year in Step 3 is keeping him, if he wants to stay.
I havent given up hope, as earlier on this season we were 5 points adrift, then caught up that gap with a win and 2 draws. So we have successfully closed a gap before.
Something clearly has to change, but when you boil it down, there are only a few options, and not all even make sense.
Option 1 change the players. I think the players play with great heart and commitment, I dont think they learn from mistakes, though dont know if that is down to them or the coaching not teaching them to learn from mistakes. One defender I have no time for, but I rate all the squad otherwise.
Option 2 change the manager. It is an easier solution to change 1 guy managing than lots of the players, but it is not necessarily the right solution, as changing a manager is a gamble, as how can one be sure a new manager would do a better job. Add in a new manager's lack of time to prepare a squad, his problems of needing time to get to know the current squad which the current manager already has, and it is safest to stick with the current manager.
Option 3 make changes to the way we play. This is the one that makes sense. The way we play does not work, so the set in his ways manager needs to show some creative flexible thinking instead of continually putting out a formation that has shown time and time again does not work.
We started off the season with Lewis and Jephte on the wings, and they were great at getting crosses into the box. The problem was as we only play one striker who was easy to mark out of the game so we had no one in the box to score from the crosses, so the tactical reliance on the wingers was flawed. If we played two up front it would be harder to mark both strikers, and then the reliance on the wingers tactic would actually be effective, as there are two guys to pass to, not just one. By now we have a clearer view of the abilities of the players. Jephte is great in bringing the ball forward, and getting in good shooting positions, but is very ineffective when shooting. Kain has a great eye for a goal, is as good at placing the ball in the corners as Tristan. So why Danny plays Jephte, who cant score, centrally, and Kain, who can socre, out on the wing, is a mystery only Danny will be able to answer. Wayne Rooney was held back by his own flexibility, he was happy to play wherever the manager wanted him to play, and Antony is like that too, sometimes central midfield, wide midfield, defender, in goal. he is a player that does best when he has a run of games. His hatrick against Dartford shows he is fine when playing very high up the pitch, but he is hardly ever played like that. Josh Chambers is currently better at holding a linking position behind the strikers than Antony, but Josh offers little in terms of shooting, whereas Antony offers a lot.
Alan made me think about 4 4 2, and on reflection, damn it, he is right! In our current mess that formation would actually fix tons of our problems. 3 at the back gives too much wide space for crosses to come in, which is a weakness of ours, whereas a back 4 closes down that wide space in defence and midfield. And it gives us two target men to aim for with long balls forward for the strikers to run onto. I was sick of seeing Warren playing his crappy tactics of one guy up front, which didnt work as the striker (Ade) got demoralised over being battered by defenders with no one around to help, and I would be surprised if Tristan wanted to stay with the same situation. I am sick of seeing us play this season with one guy up front in a way that is equally ineffective, as the only time one up front works is when you have a guy up front that can hold onto the ball and bring others into play, but we dont have the guys that have the suss to make the runs to get the balls from the striker holding onto the ball, so playing one up front does not work for us, yet Danny still cant see that. I dont go to the bar after games, but will after Aveley, as I want to make these points to Danny and hear what his answer is, as who knows, he has been a successful manager so will have reasons for his decisions that I will understand once he explains them, but at the moment I just cant see why we play only one up front and have our joint most dangerous player Kain wide instead of using him as a central attacking playmaker/ scorer and why loan player Josh is played instead of committed Welling player Antony, who stuck with us despite the crappy treatment he got from Warren, and is now getting from Danny. Now, time to press "Post Quick Reply!" Sorry folks for the length of this post, but this all does my head in, this season is all like watching a car crash in slow motion, as it it crazy, the guys who have shown they can score arent played in attacking positions, and the guys who have shown they cant score are played in attacking positions, and we are sent out in such defensive formations how can we be expected to score enough goals to win consistently?
Just adding on in response to Chris's comment about Twitter requests for Bloor to be sacked, life is a learning process, and just like Chris, I had mentioned here how Twitter fans have been demanding Bloor be sacked, then The Poet put me right on this, pointing out if one checks the status of the fans demanding Bloor be sacked one finds they aren't even Welling fans!
So as proof of this, after the Dartford fortuitous 1 - 0 win due to a unlucky Welling defensive header going wrong a Twitter fan Peter Brooks, Kym Brooks @PeterKymBrooks posts, Dec 26 "Its time Bloor was sacked"
Fair enough to have a point of view if he was at the match or goes to Welling games, but (hat tip to The Poet for pointing out check the background before taking any comment on board) the profile of Peter Brooks reveals "Moved to Scotland to get out of England and the country it's become. I am an Atheist Buddhist and West Ham Fan." so I doubt he even watches enough Welling matches to know what he is talking about. The other earlier Twitter requests were also from equally Welling unrelated fans.
Jamison schmoozing with Dowson is no surprise, I will be navigating the incredibly difficult route to the Dartford ground in a couple of days, and will be watching out for Jamison's graffiti, "I luv Dowse 4 eva"! (I love banter but the problem is online people take things so literally and dont see the hidden in jokes, so I uncharacteristically avoid that here to avoid misunderstandings, but I've chatted with Jamison who is the only one here who gets my jokes are well intentioned and not malicious). But Jamison, surely in the bar your proposal of marriage to Dowse is taking steps a bit too far?!
Oh, in passing, my mention of King hanging around our games was misunderstood, as he is a vulture hanging around the wrong club. But the Dartford insider I was chatting with at our game amused me, as he told me that (unemployed) Peter Taylor has recently been going to Dartford matches. Foolishly I said Taylor was a really bad manager, who would always complain his players needed to cut our mistakes that led to goals, but never did anything to actually stop those mistakes, I should have said Taylor was the best manager Welling have ever had, and that it was a tragic mistake to sack him, and that Dartford should take him on as he is the best manager who will coach their team out of making mistakes that lead to goals.
Hot tip for Taylor Curran: Us to beat Dartford 2 - 1 in a couple of days. We can beat them in the rematch, if we play a bloody attacking formation, and actually play our most effective players in attacking positions. Their fan forum was mentioning how Antony (who had scored a hatrick against them last time) looked dangerous, hopefully Danny will have spotted Jephte didnt offer as much as Antony did in the limited time he was on. Right, that is it, nothing more to be said until after the Dartford revenge! Someone here was saying they were unsure about going, I say go, as I made the mistake of not going to our cup game against them, as I had convinced myself it would be a close 1 - 1 draw, and I'd get to see the replay at our ground, but Antony had another script in mind, so I learned you never know how these seemingly predictable games will go. Ooh, I just BET Jamison will be going! (Ducks)
Things always seem much worse after a poor run of results and a defeat against rivals but the rot at this club is much deeper than the manager and the players.
Same old circus of not being able to cope with a gate over 400
Ground plans got quiet
Recruitment of players questionable in the off season
No regular place to train
Match day experience moves forward to only go back with a big marquee left to tease us.
All the other clubs who used to aspire to be welling are now lightyears ahead