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bruno


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1.  Dulwich Hamlet Mk2 (aka Fisher Athletic)   P2  W2  D0  L0  F7  A3   Pts6

Their official website is a bit shy about who coaches so I can't see if my prediction that our very own GL and JD would join the exodus was right.  If they did then I have to say well done chaps but you are doing too good a job for our local rivals.

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Anonymous

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Bruno,

I can confirm GL and JD are the 1st team coaches at Fisher.
Looks like a decent start but as you know, a very long way to go yet!

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JgFc


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Surely their positions at Welling are untenable?? Apart from minds elsewhere they can tap up our players who arent on contract and teh better youth players. They must go if they havent already or its just another case of wtf are we doing off the pitch.

Or is this why we dont have a reserve side cos they went to fisher?? I hope they have both left, We can then sort out the youth set up which is a jackie brambles.

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bruno


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There is certainly an issue of conflict of interest but this existed last year too though since the Hamlet were in a lower Division the potential damage was probably less. I have always been of the view that this was questionable at the very least but the exact relationship between WUY and WUFC has at best always been fuzzy as I have posted before.

This does not however detract from GL and JD achievements with Hamlet Mk1 and Mk2 (rebranded Fisher). What remains to be seen is whether they can sustain it.




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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that."  Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010

 
Anonymous

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On what exact, factual basis, is the Youth Section a Jackie Brambles JGFC.  Interesting you hope GL and JD have left and not coaching our first team instead seeing as Fisher are doing well (albeit only 2 games)!  Are you letting personal feelings cloud your judgement?



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Anonymous

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I personally see no conflict at all..

Their positions with Fisher regard senior football, not youth players.

I also happen to know that both of them are committed to bringing through welling United youth players for Welling united, not any other teams.

It should be recognised that part of the benefit of having a youth set up is that hopefully players will play for the club a good number of years, work their way through the age groups, and actually have an affinity with the club. A passion for Welling and a desire to play their football here rather than elsewhere.

(omg...sounds almost visionary!)

I hear the application to the capital league was not successful BUT Welling will still have a reserve team this season.

Why so much doom and gloom?



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Anonymous

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I personally fail to understand why JGFC glories in putting down the junior section.  Excellent coaching is on offer to hundreds of local youngsters who enjoy (yes, JGFC) their football.  The more senior teams are progressing well.  All is well, in fact, apart from one man's inability to say anything positive.  As a parent and fan, I wish YOU would leave, but at least we don't have to put up with you at PVR.  What exactly do you contribute to warrant your abuse? And before anyone jumps on the bandwaggon about personal attacks, read some of the posts from the man in question first.

It seems to me most people avoid confrontation with this individual for a quiet life.

Until I see any evidence of proactiveness from him or plain old loyalty to your team, he will remain to me a waste of space. 

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bruno


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I don't agree.  The distinction between youth and senior football is a false one - its all Welling United and Fisher sides are Fisher.

Justifiably or not what will people think if a good WUY player turns up at Fisher?   After all in Gary's words "It is a fact of football that some players choose to move on"

What are the WUY players attending the local derby with their free passes on Boxing day going to think when their Chairman and the Welling United Community Officer, who they've seen at matches and soccer schools in their Welling kit, are out on the pitch warming up our opponents Fisher?

I wholeheartedly agree with the principles of the Community Scheme and have said so - not waxed so lyrically I must admit.  I do, however, believe that it should cease at an earlier age with the older sides, 16's and above I would suggest, being run from within the club itself.

As far as the reserves go the published official line differs somewhat with your statement anonymous.  It says "The Welling United Capital League reserve team has been put on hold this season due to this year's structure of the league. However, the Wings are hoping to arrange reserve team friendlies when required for this season."

I'm not sure what is meant by so much doom and gloom, the issue which has developed in the thread is the expression of the view that any individual should not hold a position at 2 different clubs.

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Anonymous

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Right - so lets get this straight.  You support the community aspect of the youth section but think 16s and above should not be allowed to join in unless they are above a certain level?  A bit unfair.  At the moment, UEFA coaches are available free of charge, are you suggesting the club should find the funding.  And if so, where from?  Be realistic.........

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Anonymous

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My previous comment regarding the reserves was simply to point out that we will have a team this year, albeit playing friendlies.

You have a valid point regarding boxing day and other direct encounters...however, most of the older youth players will understand that some coaches get paid for their services.

Finally, given the geographical proximity of both clubs it seems likely that players will pass from one to the other at some point in time (both ways)...how come nobody is on here suggesting its great...now we can get Gary and Jim to nick a few players for us from Fisher!!!

No...as usual its a negative view we see expressed.

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bruno


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I believe that from the age of 16 the Club should 'own' its youth sides - if WUY want to continue sides from 16 - 18 I have no problem with that.  Charlton have their Academy but still run community schemes.

Interesting that the EUFA cioaches are provided free but the at the moment bit is a bit worrying.  Does this mean that if the coaches have to be paid WUY is unable to continue?

As far as funding goes this has been dicussed ad infinitum on the forum and having an effective commercial manager being paid the going rate for the job would go a long way.

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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that."  Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010

 
Anonymous

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there would be no reason for the coaches to have to be paid - the youth section is fully self sufficient and healthy.  All volunteers will reamin just that, I understand.  Lets not start another rumour.



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Anonymous

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Lets be very, very clear.....

Everyone involved with the youth section is there because they want to be...not for any money!!!!!

None are paid or have any wish to be.....

should i have put that in bold?....it seems clear to me though..

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bruno


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Anonymous wrote:
Finally, given the geographical proximity of both clubs it seems likely that players will pass from one to the other at some point in time (both ways)...how come nobody is on here suggesting its great...now we can get Gary and Jim to nick a few players for us from Fisher!!!


No...as usual its a negative view we see expressed.

A fair point as far as free movement goes but 'nick a few players' - I for one don't want to go there, the possible implications for paid Fisher employees doing so don't bear thinking about.

As far as negativity goes a differing view does not automatically translate as negative.

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bruno


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I didn't raise the matter of payment to coaches and certainly wasn't suggesting that those involved in the running of WUY were paid, indeed I have made reference to that fact and the amount of their free time they give up several times in the past. 

What I failed to realise from the post which raised the issue of UEFA coaches and funding was the fact that it appears the anonymous poster was referring to GL and JD and not other coaches brought in.

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Anonymous

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The point was that players will have travelled between the clubs before, and no doubt will continue to do so..

And i wasnt suggesting that either would do anything incorrect regarding "nicking players"...just pointing out that the view expressed was that its all bad for welling, rather than all bad for fisher...im sure you probably got the point though..

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bruno


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I did indeed.

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Anonymous

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All the coaches who work with the youth section are encouraged to attend courses, paid for by the youth section. All are CRB checked and none are paid.

On top of that, all coaches are encouraged to help out with other teams as much as their time permits. Either taking coaching sessions or whatever is required to help each other....all do so.

All give their time freely and expect nothing in return...least of all critism from those who know nothing of the people involved or the work that goes into making it all happen behind the scenes.

I notice bruno signs his messages with "youth are the future"...tell me...what was on the end of the messages 18 months ago before the existing st up was put in place?....."lets have a youth section"???????

Personally, I think "thanks" wouldnt go amiss now and then. Dont think i can ever recall seeing any such posts on here.
I happen to know the youth secretary, for one, and the ammount of time and effort thats put into providing what we have in place should not be under estimated...........just my view.

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bruno


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My signature has been there for a long time and I believe it may well have been there 18 months ago. Certainly the need for a youth and reserve set up has been a recurring topic over the years when we have had neither or just one.

I have actively posted fixtures and results for both the last reserve side we had and, for the last 2 years, youth matches and indeed last year ran the unofficial website in respect of the WUY Kent League sides. Oh and I was involved in Junior football for around 10 years, 6 of which were as Chairman at a club which ran as many sides as WUY ran last season. Hardly the actions of someone jumping on a bandwagon which the tone of your post suggests anonymous.

Yes I have views which on occasion may be at variance with what is happening on the ground but is that a cardinal sin?

As far as thanks go I know from personal experience that providing junior/youth football can be a thankless task but any thanks, when given, will come from those who benefit. Since the forum upon which this thread appears is for Wings chat I wouldn't expect to see messages of thanks to those running WUY though I agree it would have been nice if a parent or player had posted such a message on the Youth forum.

As a matter of interest it was JgFc who initiated the youth forum.

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JgFc


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I did indeed... And i wanted a youth section at the club, The 18s last year which werent part of kingspoor did a great job and provided a few players who played PROPER first team matches and also County Cup games. They had a Manager who was good for the club and obviously bringing some very good players through. We then shat all over the players and the manager and having spoken to Gary Lisney i can see the players we have now include too many crap ones. And We are not attracting the best Youth players in the area with regard to bringing them through to the first team, SCREW enjoying it the Main focus of the youth set up should be providing players and cometing in the top competitions available to them. Not oooh lets hope he enjoys his game today even though hes rubbish.



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JgFc


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PS, Gary/Jim I take it thats you posting, Two points,

Are you not using your registered account on here because you will get your bum smacked by Barrie or The Dulwich.. Sorry Fisher Chairman
Or Are you not using your account because you said no representative of Kingsmoor will post on here again.??

An easy way for you to attract players this year would have been to have a section at the Danson Festival. Im sure if some of these UEFA Coaches and a few of the top youth players were there you would have attracted some quality to the set up.

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Anonymous

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JGFC
Clueless..........
Fact: Kingsmoor no longer exist stand alone
Fact: You never saw the U18s play last year
Fact: The U16s that did play for the first team are still with us
Fact: Ken left due to wanting to pursue other avenues, he was not shat over
Fact: You have never seen any matches/training sessions
Fact: You don't personally know any of the committee
Fact: Youth football is not just about the elite
Fact: There are many oustanding players coming through the youth section
Fact: Basically, you know nothing, are not qualified and I doubt could even kick a ball
Fact: We won't see you at PVR as you have no bottle - thank God.
Fact: I am not GL or JD - and can vouch there are many people that disagree wholehearteldy with your stinking attitude.


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JgFc


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and you are asn anonymous ****

LOL!!

You seem to know a lot about the so called youth set up and seeing as the club pay NOTHING towards kingsmoor how can you say they are not stand alone?

Gary lisney told me that its about the players enjoying themselves. Yes great lets get beat 7-0 at youth level have a lot of stiffs playing and hold back the better players.

at 16s and over its very much about the elite i'm afraid, because at that age we are looking to bring through the best players to the first team, we would have a reserves but gary and Jim let the club down and pi ssed off to fisher. So the reserves were cancelled after THEY went to the club saying let us run the reserves!!

So again i say they shouldnt be involved with the youth, 1 they arent successful, 2 they said they want to run a reserves then pi ssed off to fisher.

Back to Mr anonymous... IF I HAVE NO BOTTLE, LOL!! How much have you got to post anonymous.. Id be delighted to show you how much "bottle" ive got any time you want.



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Anonymous

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Meet you at PVR next week then.

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JgFc


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tell me who you are and ill meet you anywhere you want, i'll come and meet you now. I love anonymous ****s like you, give it the biggun and post anonymously.

You wanna see how much bottle ive got post who you are, or **** off

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JgFc


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Im not traveling to the north east though ;)But come on post your name...

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Anonymous

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The Youth section is called Welling United Youth - with Kingsmoor, as every one of the 250+ members know.  It is not called Kingsmoor.
You don't have a say, fortunately, in anything to do with the main club or the Youth, so you can suggest all you wish - no-one listens anyhow.
So Charlton are wrong running 16+ as part of the community, are they?
Gary and Jim have let no-one down - they are great guys who provide quality coaching free of charge, because they love the game.  Their work with Fisher is separate.  You really are a complete waste of space, in my opinion, of course.  It is my understanding there will still be a reserve side.  If you believe you can do a better job, stand up and be counted - the youth section is always happy to welcome qualified coaches of a decent standard.  You would have to prove yourself, of course, and have a CRB check.  Would this be a problem?

I am a parent of a youth player and proud of the club and the Youth Section.  i will be at PVR next week, along with my son in his kit.  debate with you anytime, Pal.

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JgFc


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post your name. simple...

you arent a parent of a youth player... and i claim my £5

run any check you want on my and illude to anything you want.

now... post your name, if you want to have a dig and question my bottle back it up and make yourself known or **** off like i said.

everyone can see its you with no bottle.

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Anonymous

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To be exact, I am the parent of 3 Youth players. 

I also regard myself as a fan of the first team and can see the benefit to the 1st team with the association with the Youth, not least the extra revenue and support generated to date.

I believe in football for all abilities, including elite players, and I also believe WUY offer a great chance of advancement, far superior to any of our local rivals outside of an academy environment.

I have posted facts and would be very interested in a factual account to back up your beliefs.

And the reason I am loathed to post my name is simply to protect my boys.  You have no qualms about openly slagging people off, I won't risk that.



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Anonymous

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JGFC wrote:

So again i say they (GL/JD) shouldnt be involved with the youth, 1 they arent successful...........
 
hhmmmm........... 9 points from 9.

Any facts you would like to point out?

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bruno


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More than enough gents or gent/lady.  Kindly take your differences which has degenerated to a personal slagging match somewhere else.

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Anonymous

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Whats this...jgfc at the centre of yet another arguement...hmmm

Anyone notice the common thread here?

And just to correct jgfc AGAIN....
The youth sections aim is to provide football for ALL ability levels. Including elite players who have potential to progress. Not rocket science considering the leagues available locally....The youth section can cater for all levels...

Yet again quoting half a statement for effect........ 

And please dont go on about names....its tiresome...I could understand if you posted under your name but all everyone actually sees is jgfc!
















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bruno


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Anonymous 2 that applies to you to.

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Anonymous

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I was merely pointing out yet another inaccurracy from jgfc. I assumed this forum would welcome factual content rather than ill informed opinions..

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bruno


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Anonymous 2  you wrote


"Whats this...jgfc at the centre of yet another arguement...hmmm

Anyone notice the common thread here?

And just to correct jgfc AGAIN...."

In my view as moderator it was an attempt to reopen the slagging match.

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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that."  Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010

 
Anonymous

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It was actually an attempt to get the thread back to facts..whilst also making others aware that that they shouldnt read everything some say as gospel..the point is valid that not everything people posts is wholly accurrate. As ever, a grain of truth but NOT the facts!..some will already know this, others should be made aware.


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bruno


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Sorry but in my opinion your opening comments in the posting do not support your contention and the remainder merely restated what has already been made clear.



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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that."  Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010

 
bruno


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Taking anonymous 2's point of getting the thread back to facts I believe that leaving aside the extraneous issues and personal sniping the 2 issues which developed can be summed up thus

1. There are those who believe that there is a conflict of interest in respect of those who hold positions at 2 football clubs and there are those who believe that because the positions are held at youth and senior levels there is sufficient separation.


2. Welling United Youth's mission statement is to provide football for ALL ability levels, including elite players who have potential to hopefully progress into the Welling United team. All those involved in running the club do it on an unpaid basis. There is a view which does not preclude WUY from running 16 - 18 year olds but says that at 16 players with potential from Welling United Youth and other clubs should be brought together and their potential developed by Welling United itself.

If there are any further comments on these issues or something I have missed can they please be made without personal attacks which get us nowhere.

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YOUTH are the future

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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that."  Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010

 
Anonymous

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Bruno,

Good post in my opinion. I have no wish to enter into personal attacks....

Just a desire that factual information is posted....you have summed the current situation well...lets hope everyone can continue in the same vein..


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Cynical


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Good posting between all.
As an outsider in this matter, I find it strange that there is so much back biting between different parties regarding the Youth.
I can understand the passion of wanting our youth ( at all levels ) to progress and do well.  Naturally enough, out of 11 players in a team, possibly only one or two will shine through and these kids must be encouraged to carry on. Having said that, all the kids, whether they are good or not, should be encouraged to play.....sport is a good leveller.
Now, as I understand it from the threads and forgive me if I am wrong, the coaches are self elected and unpaid.  Anyone and I mean anyone that gives up their precious free time to encourage / help / train / progress the future of potential Kedwells ( just an example ) must be applauded. They are unsung heroes and deserve our full backing. My main concern is if GL & JD are involved in the running of Fisher, how can they honestly want to be involved in Welling youth and bring them on? I hope that I am wrong, but I see a conflict of interests here. If WUY have a good U16 player and it goes un-noticed by Neil et al, then Fisher will snap them up toot sweet.  I would have preferred another coach from a lower league to be involved, that way, we could do the poaching.

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