Piggy will take over as well as general manager and kit man. just seem them in homebase buying a strimmer for when the pitch gets long. Shame to see colin go. But do you really think they will go out and get a decent groundsman?
__________________
Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Bubbles was telling me that at St Albans - they have appointed a commercial manager that works on a commission basis - that seems very sensible. Get a new bit of advertising hoarding (and God knows we have the space for it) - £450.00 for the club and £50.00 for the commercial manager. I know some-one who has a board at Bromley. £500 and they get two season tickets. They go to the game - buy a programme, have a beer, buy a wooly hat - clubs making money all the way round.
I'll do the commercial managers job for £39K + commission :)
In reality for that sort of money, you would be looking at a Championship Div One sort of job. At Welling you're looking at pocket money and a few extra quid if you are lucky.
Barry Wallis was very much under-estimated. He pretty much single-handedly scooped the club's main sponsor and he built up a network of sponsors for the ground perimeter sponsorship and the matchday programme. This will be a problem next season as these relationships were very much with the Wallismeister.
As expected there has been no hand-over and someone will have to pick-up the pieces.
For as long as I can remember young Barry has been out doing stuff on the pitch. I think the pitch, like the club is on good hands for years to come as long as the Hobbins family have some input. Let's give them the support they deserve for once.
Couldn't agree more in that they deserve the support.
However at the meet the managers eve it now seems that with the commercial manager going as well that both Barry and Barrie will now take responsibility for all roles at present. Whilst admiral in their approach to "roll their sleeves up" it would now seem that since last year they are now taking on three new roles including that of Graham's (RIP).
Unless things have changed drastically Five into two dont go. I like the pair of them, but Barrie aint going to be there forever and Barry needs experience upstairs in terms of learning the ropes and getting contacts.
At sometime someone needs to make some long term decisions about the future and the infrastructure. We have the first of those in place in terms of a long term lease on the ground, second of those should be to make Barrie a life president and use his skills to bring someone else on board to work with Barrie in the long term.
For as long as I can remember young Barry has been out doing stuff on the pitch. I think the pitch, like the club is on good hands for years to come as long as the Hobbins family have some input. Let's give them the support they deserve for once.
Sorry but in MY opinion that post is b*ll*cks, Why do you "support" people who clearly under achieve and cut corners? Cos hes a nice bloke?
BGB Sorry but to get behind someone there has to be reasons that outweigh the negative or signs that they are trying to correct the short comings.
To just blindly say "hoorah jolly nice fella deserves support" sorry but thats just pathetic IN MY OPINION. Why dont people have the balls to openly discuss the short comings? If we just say "isnt it great dont they do it well" blindly whilst not having a scooby or ramming our heads up their anus then any comments saying get behind him/them are laughable.
Piggy reads this and other than being the Son of the Owner at one stage and washing the kit i'd love to know how he can drive the business forward and how qualified he is to do so, rather than just pocket a monkey (or whatever it is) a week fro the family fund from the club. And for you too say hes been at the club all his life he must know what hes doing, Sorry but when his elders dont how the hell is he expected too? Any club aiming for success would have got someone in when graham was no longer around, But we just said hey piggy lets kleep it in the family just nod and say yes and we will tell no one.
lets be sensible about this, the GM drives the business forward. So lets start getting piggy to stand up and be counted, cos we have a chairman who is just a name, if we have a GM who is just a name too, we really are fcked!!
AND LETS BE BRUTALLY HONEST
How often do you hear Barry on the radio or in the press?? ZIPERDY DOO DAH!!
But hey feel free to come back and say DONT BE NEGATIVE... Im not, i just dont have my head up their ar*e all the time and see where we are pathetic off the pitch.
-- Edited by JgFc at 12:31, 2007-10-20
__________________
Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Come on BGB. Wake up and smell the coffee. How can you possibly believe that supporting the current hierarchy "for years to come" will bring success to the club.
The powerbase of the club is now relying on Barrie and Barry to drive the club forward. Barry does not have eight arms and hands. Does this give you a warm and comfy feeling going forward?
When I left the club I made it blatantly clear that the structure behind the club was flawed and that at best the club was being run as a hobby. The current infrastructure is shocking. There are probably Sunday league sides with a more structured set-up.
The loss of Colin (A talented groundsman, who turned out the best pitches on par with championship level) and Barry Wallis (Built up many important relationships with key sponsors) and then not replacing them and covering their responsibilities is a clear sign that the club have no ambition and are just playing for time.
I still think the club could be so much more. It has excellent potential that could be exploited in the borough and it could (no should) be a much bigger powerhouse in the Conference. That's my frustration having been involved at the club for three years.
Until new ownership comes on-board the club will be in it's twilight years.
Its heart breaking to see the club run how it is. i can understand why it is but doesnt make it right. theyve brought it from park football and never improved off the pitch. I like barrie, i really do , always have but anyone who criticises gets slagged off to high heaven (trust me it ALL gets back to me). When ive asked questions none get answered. The truth is they dont give a toss about the fans and just live off the club. Why did the WUISA go because they wanted all money to them, but if they actually spent some on the squad etc and on improving off the pitch they would have probably got it off teh WUISA when they wanted it (or demanded it).
Sorry but if by criticising and being constructive and answering questions im a troublemaking bastard (yep been called that!) then please refer to me in future as
trouble making bastard.
To be fair i piss myself at the same few saying oh how great the owners are isnt it mahvellousssssssssssss , LOL!
__________________
Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
I never thought that I would hear myself saying this, but, I agree with Anon and JgFc. It appears that the club is and always will be a ' hobby ' to the present owners. Not having travelled to other clubs in our league, but having listened to some of our other supporters, our ground is a laughing stock. The facilities which include toilets etc are a disgrace. The pitch was always maintained in first class condition, but now Colin has gone, who the heck is going to want to work for peanuts and a second hand Hover mower?
I think you will find its not a hobby, its their means of supporting their family. Clearly this doesn't make for the most ambitious football club in the world but somehow I doubt you lot would be so keen to splash money around willy nilly if you/your families futures depended on it. If any of you have run a business (being supervisor at ASDA or whatever you are doesnt count MarkX) then you might have some idea about how the Hobbins feel.
Before you ask, I haven't ever run a business myself as I was hatched out of an egg.
I have run my own business for more than 10 years now and can honestly say that it is a struggle some times. But, having said that, perhaps I do not have the financial backing / security that the Hobbins have. If there are difficulties keeping the club at a certain level, then surely they must go. Give someone with the prowess, passion and commitment to take the club to another level, the opportunity. I know that the family have brought us from a small, friendly, Saturday pub side to this level, but we haven't gone further for years and maybe never will under the present regime. We need to progress.
But, having said that, perhaps I do not have the financial backing / security that the Hobbins have. If there are difficulties keeping the club at a certain level, then surely they must go.
Can you explain what financial backing / security the Hobbins have - if you look at Welling I can't see how it can afford anyone a remotely comfortable living, nor a healthy pension. The Hobbins don't come across as having the trappings of wealth either. As for them going it overlooks the fact that they own the club.
As for your comment about the ground - I have been to may within our league and wouldn't regard it as a joke by any stretch of the imagination. I suggest you visit a toilet in "big" club Lewes if you think ours are bad.
This all really comes down to a mindset, do you want total control over a small enterprise or looser control over a larger one?
It has been apparent for several years that the total control approach is the one preferred although I personally think had they timed it right and taken a looser rein about a decade ago the club could have achieved more and more likely the family would have achieved greater financial return. Once Graham sadly departed you are presented with fewer family hands and less experience to maintain that control. Is this now leading to a degree of retrenchment in the off field side? Would a more experienced manager be more able to exploit the loss of experience for his own ends and is that one of the reasons why Smith was appointed?
(Note a) I agree we are still here unlike many other clubs who are not the owners source of livelihood and spent what they did not have Note b) I refuse to accept the widely held tenet that the only way to succeed is to spend a benefactors money rather than organically and sustainably enhance our means)
To combine with another thread regarding the value of the club, there is nothing to stop the Hobbins shutting the club as far as I am aware should they ever decide to, bar the fact it is their income stream. That puts a somewhat indeterminate financial value of the club as far as the outside world (supporters) are concerned. I don't know how you would materially value the goodwill of a football club support. By the same token, the residual value to the Hobbins, as we do not own the ground and would not make a serious amount out of player registration sales, only comes by virtue of current playing position and the continued support of the fan base. If punters stopped coming through the door you would essentially be left with only the League registration and a lease on a ground to play on. Unless you plan on doing an MK Dons style relocation and had enough of a bank roll to ignore the lack of support, that leaves you with very uncertain future trading conditions which would reduce any sale value to the Hobbins.
In short, both sides need each other, but it would be a whole site easier if both sides had some idea of a mutually acceptable and beneficial target for the way forward. However, as football in general seems to live in some parallel world to the rest of business I'm not holding my breath.
Note b) I refuse to accept the widely held tenet that the only way to succeed is to spend a benefactors money rather than organically and sustainably enhance our means)
Agree with that as we've all seen what happened to Hornchurch, Canvey etc. What we've never done is enhance our potential within our means. I've said before about simple fundraising ideas and a new position at the club including marketing, pr, commercial activities (mostly commission based). Imagine someone employed 5 years back straight out of college/university - they would have learnt on the job but more importantly picked up some of the knowledge of Graham, Barrie, B.Wallis, the fans etc. The club needs to act now for the future as in another 5 or 10 years who will be left at the club who will understand the inner workings?
Note b) I refuse to accept the widely held tenet that the only way to succeed is to spend a benefactors money rather than organically and sustainably enhance our means)
Agree with that as we've all seen what happened to Hornchurch, Canvey etc. What we've never done is enhance our potential within our means. I've said before about simple fundraising ideas and a new position at the club including marketing, pr, commercial activities (mostly commission based). Imagine someone employed 5 years back straight out of college/university - they would have learnt on the job but more importantly picked up some of the knowledge of Graham, Barrie, B.Wallis, the fans etc. The club needs to act now for the future as in another 5 or 10 years who will be left at the club who will understand the inner workings?
Gary pardon my language but... i ****ing love you!!
One sentence there What we've never done is enhance our potential within our means
They have never tried to do it let alone achieve it. I dont slag them off for the sake of it. i love the club/team and possibly even the hobbins in a strange way BUT i feel that on several occaisions and for a number of reasons I, YOU and US have been taken the piss out of.
Its a crying shame because the fans that we have, and the gates we could achieve and the things we could do off the pitch could EASILY in my opinion sustain a DECENT conference team and a good living for the two bazza's.
The club has always had a reputation for going doolally when people criticise they dont help themselves with some of the stuff they do.
I do hope things change. But the current way the club is run and also the way they got the WUISA sabotaged and gave sanction and control to the WSU to people they could control does not auger well.
these are my opinions.
I also believe that a supporters trust (wether to take over OR help the current owners) or an independent supporters association NOT controlled by the club would be the way to go.
Unless things change the only way the club will progress and unite is under new direction in owners and also supporters groups. IN MY OPINION .
i am also aware that people do a lot of work for the club and their heart is in the right place. i do not believe that they will be supported under the current infrastructure both official or unofficial though.
THINGS NEED TO CHANGE
-- Edited by JgFc at 19:17, 2007-10-22
__________________
Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Cynical, I wonder how you would feel if you were forever being criticised by people re the running of your business. Lets face it, its been going for 10 years so has to be regarded as something of a success thus far - like WUFC. So how would you feel if you were constantly criticised for not taking risks, not investing enough money etc etc etc. Much like the Hobbins family and WUFC, I bet no one knows more about your business than you do.
At a guess, and please correct me if I am wrong, you would be pretty happy if your business kept 'you and yours' comfortably for the rest of your days, and therefore you are unlikely to risk everything on the slim chance of massive success at some point in the future.
Do you see what I did there? How it doesn't seem so simple when you imagine yourself in that position? Do you see? Do you?
At a guess, and please correct me if I am wrong, you would be pretty happy if your business kept 'you and yours' comfortably for the rest of your days, and therefore you are unlikely to risk everything on the slim chance of massive success at some point in the future.
Do you see what I did there? How it doesn't seem so simple when you imagine yourself in that position? Do you see? Do you?
A valid point aside from the fact that you are arguing a completely different one to the current debate.
Where has anyone in the last 10 posts said that they should risk everything on massive success. If you read what has actually been posted rather what you presume is being asked for it is a discussion about SUSTAINABLE growth. You could argue if there was stagnation and relegation that that would also risk their assets.
The Hobbins undoubtedly know how to run the football side but there aren't too many people blessed with the knowledge to run that and a thriving commercial side. Most businesses employ people who are skilled at the bits they don't know. Its then about getting the best you can for your budget and letting them get on with the work in their way (as long as it is legal and fair).
Have you criticised HM Government in the last 10 years? I'd suspect so. It is a similar situation in which they take your money and you are given back what they see fit or you leave the country\club. Do you feel that you shouldn't point out where things might be done better?
I understand what you are saying. I simply wanted to illustrate how easy it is for us to make suggestions when we have no risk attached. Even the seemingly simple act of employing a groundsman or commercial manager carries a risk - they have to be paid etc etc.
Its not correct to compare the club with the government. The government is elected by the people to serve the best interests of the people. WUFC is a privately owned business.
I understand what you are saying. I simply wanted to illustrate how easy it is for us to make suggestions when we have no risk attached. Even the seemingly simple act of employing a groundsman or commercial manager carries a risk - they have to be paid etc etc.
Its not correct to compare the club with the government. The government is elected by the people to serve the best interests of the people. WUFC is a privately owned business.
No one who either owns or supports the club is in a 'no risk' position. You and I do not run a direct financial risk but we do run an indirect financial risk (your admission money\quality of product) and an intangible risk in supporting the club (not meeting your expectations). Do you not offer constructive criticism (which for the most part it is) and watch as the club becomes less able to compete with its peers, the 'risk' being relegation etc (which would certainly not improve the Hobbins financial standing) or do you offer constructive criticsm and run the 'risk' of being unpopular. If the worst still happens at least you know you tried.
With regard to the 'seemingly simple acts' its about assessing the relative risks in getting the act\appointment wrong. The more important the more you strive to make sure you have enough information to avert the majority of the risk. However, running any business is a risk in itself, which you should understand before getting involved. It requires a certain level of mitigated risk taking.
(Note: Unfortunately 17 years working in power stations, nuclear plants and the NHS has left me all to familiar with the concept of risk mitigation)
It is more correct to compare with the Government than a business than you may think. Welling United Football Club is a business in that it can go bust, has to meet company regulations and only has direct competitors if the product that you are purchasing is a game of football rather than support of your locality through a game of football (which is the criterion for the majority of our support I'd suggest).
If the product you are purchasing is the latter you are stuck with what is being determined by a small percentage of those involved in the wider whole (the owner, management board etc). You a stuck with having no immediate alternative. This is largely what happens in an election where your voice is only heard if a significant percentage (but not necessarily a majority) of others vote in the same way. That puts in place a collection of people you are trusting to act in accordance with your mandate but they are not obliged to. Otherwise you have no material influence and you get what you are given and you have to get on with it. The end product is the same, if you don't like it you put up with it or leave.
At a guess, and please correct me if I am wrong, you would be pretty happy if your business kept 'you and yours' comfortably for the rest of your days, and therefore you are unlikely to risk everything on the slim chance of massive success at some point in the future.
Do you see what I did there? How it doesn't seem so simple when you imagine yourself in that position? Do you see? Do you?
A valid point aside from the fact that you are arguing a completely different one to the current debate.
Where has anyone in the last 10 posts said that they should risk everything on massive success. If you read what has actually been posted rather what you presume is being asked for it is a discussion about SUSTAINABLE growth. You could argue if there was stagnation and relegation that that would also risk their assets.
The Hobbins undoubtedly know how to run the football side but there aren't too many people blessed with the knowledge to run that and a thriving commercial side. Most businesses employ people who are skilled at the bits they don't know. Its then about getting the best you can for your budget and letting them get on with the work in their way (as long as it is legal and fair).
Have you criticised HM Government in the last 10 years? I'd suspect so. It is a similar situation in which they take your money and you are given back what they see fit or you leave the country\club. Do you feel that you shouldn't point out where things might be done better?
Glen........most people in business take risks everyday, be it small or large. It's the chance you take for wanting to ' go on your own ' Other people decide to ' play it safe ' and work for someone else which of course, is less of a risk ( ? ) You do not have to risk everything to keep ' you and yours ' in a better way of life. Yes I and no doubt many others, have taken various risks to try to establish continuity of an income / success. If you stagnate and don't go with the flow, you get left behind. After conversing with well seasoned supporters, this, in my opinion, is the crux of the matter with WU.
Do you see what I did there? How it doesn't seem so simple when you imagine yourself in that position? Do you see? Do you?
I don't think anyone in this thread talked about ' massive success ' If a 'massive success ' is having been in the Conference for 14 years, possibly earning a decent income, then dropping to a lower league, then, so be it. These comments are from supporters that have followed WU for a long time. In my opinion, for what it's worth, that isn't success. Success is moving forward, getting the best out of what you have at your disposal, not sitting back on your laurals and hoping that no one will mind if you drop a zone or so. Well, as Stafford so rightly said, if we are relegated, it would not improve the Hobbins financial standing. ( BTW Stafford, excellent posting ) Have we progressed since leaving the Conference, are we still fundamentally a 'hobby' for the management? There is no doubt that the Hobbins know how to run a football club, that is not in question. What is in question is, in my opinion, would the club progress further with new ownership? I would love to see the club get stronger and stronger, but we need a new infrastructure in place first.
