Whatever, its not in the clubs best interest to have the fisher duo involved in the youth set up as has been shown, no players coming through and if they do they sign for fisher.
PS Starkey? Ian the ex Welling Center Half?
-- Edited by JgFc at 05:42, 2008-09-13
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Whatever your opinion, players have been developed to a high standard - once not in the Youth section it is down to the senior managers to retain them. Either they did not want to stay, or they were not earmarked as having potential. Either way, a mistake has been made and this can not be laid at the door of those involved in youth. They are now in the adult world.
once not in the Youth section it is down to the senior managers to retain them......
They are now in the adult world.
Correct me if I'm wrong but since many of the side we are talking about were U16's in the 2006/7 season that would have made them Year 2 U18 players for Welling United Youth with Kingsmoor this season. Since they are not therefore adults what has happened is that, for whatever reason, they have decided not to spend their final year of youth development in Welling United's excellent community youth setup.
-- Edited by bruno at 10:32, 2008-09-13
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
they have decided not to spend their final year of youth development in Welling United's excellent community youth setup.
100% right on both scores - having tasted reserve football this is the level some chose to, and can, play. There were also 2nd year U18s last year who had no choice but to move on. Shame not with us.
Ta for that. Ian was a good servent to the club and as a player had his heart in the right place. Havent got a clue what hes been doing for 20 years or how qualified he would be to coach at this level but thats not to say he isnt.
I still think dumb and dumber should go full time at Fisher as their achievements for us can be written on a stamp. (under 11s south runners up dont count)
I cant name ONE player who has signed for welling in what 3-4 years from 16s to 18s. Says it all, i still have huge concerns about their loyalty too and believe we would be better without them and if that means Kingsmoor so be it. We could run an under 16s and a Conference Youth and thats it.
How many of these players watch the club? i believe thats one of their big claims about the youth, its good for the club etc etc. We arent bringing the quality of players through and we arent getting their families through the gate and those incharge work at another club and poach our players.
Am I missing something here,is there some agenda as to the youth teams ? Having been involved with kids football for some twenty years with both of my boys, I know how difficult it is to find coaches and managers for youth football let alone parents available to give time and support for their kids. To have available recognised coaches is a bonus not to be turned down, if they are part of a structure of another club then it is up to the Welling to decide whether thats a problem or not.If theyoung players are to progress in football within the club then that is a Welling management decision, if they do not need strikers etc, etc , this year ,then the best players coming through will have to move to another club,that is the way of Non league football, as Andy Ford is not going to take someone on just for sake of it also the player himself will want to play regular football and not sit in the stand or on the bench.
Your recent posts just go to demonstrate your complete lack of inside information of the current situation. You talk on here as someone who has the inside track and quiet clearly you know NOTHING.
You post on here your views as an armchair supporter, like many others, who have never seen the current youth teams in earnest. And look an idiot....as usual.
You have voiced opinions about our youth coaches committment to the club without ever knowing them, again really, really foolish.
I assume because you have some pre-concieved notion that they are agents or whatever making millions of pounds from poaching Welling youth players for Fisher!..........please....this is not real madrid...
Your just basically an idiot who leads a very sad lonely life!...id suggest you grow up! and be thankfull for what you have now at the club. So much more than recent years....2 years ago you wouldnt have had a youth team or coach debate.......We DIDNT HAVE ONE!!!!!
I believe jim and gary have stated on at least one occassion that their committment to SENIOR football is Fisher, BUT their totally committed to Welling for youths. Yes players have moved on, some to Fisher, some to Cray Wanderers and thats what happens at non=league.
The fact remains, the senior management team at the club had first pick of last years 18's and decided not to pursue any of them, other clubs then got second pick and decided a couple were worth a punt.....thats life.
The truth is, its complicated at present with the introduction of Corinthians, but those inside the club understand this....armchair supporters wouldnt...
If nothing else, i think it would be sensible to stop judging those you dont know.....but then that justs common sense so i dont expect it to register...
Look back at the threads about the new manager few months back to clarify exactly how stupid JGFC has been made to look in the past. And no doubt will in the future. Betting odds? Clueless.
Anonymous wrote:I believe jim and gary have stated on at least one occassion that their committment to SENIOR football is Fisher, BUT their totally committed to Welling for youths.
Anon, the above bit about Jim and Gary saying they are totally commited to Fisher at senior level, as has been said by some on here before is not right, there is a blatent conflict of interests. And in my opinion we are more than likely to come of worse.
I'd compare it to say Steve Clarke at Chelsea being employed by Chelsea to help them win trophies etc, whilst at the same time working for say West Ham helping them produce players to achieve success in the same competitions. It just wouldnt happen. In my opinion they should commit to helping one club produce results be that with the first team squad or through helping produce youth players from which the senior team can benefit.
If the anonymous poster is correctly quoting Gary and Jim, and this has previously been posted again anonymously, I would go one step further. Committed to YOUTH for Welling and Fisher for SENIORS indicates that once players from the community youth scheme have completed year 2 at U18 (if they get that far) G & J don their FISHER hats. How anyone can try to deny a conflict of interest with a statement like that beggars belief.
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
Anonymous wrote:"I assume because you have some pre-concieved notion that they are agents or whatever making millions of pounds from poaching Welling youth players for Fisher!..........please....this is not real madrid..."
"....2 years ago you wouldnt have had a youth team or coach debate.......We DIDNT HAVE ONE!!!!!"
The fact remains, the senior management team at the club had first pick of last years 18's and decided not to pursue any of them, other clubs then got second pick and decided a couple were worth a punt.....thats life.
The truth is, its complicated at present with the introduction of Corinthians, but those inside the club understand this....armchair supporters wouldnt..."
Nobody mentioned the word 'agent' - the point being made is that many (not just JgFc) believe that there is a direct conflict of interest generated by Gary and Jim's dual roles.
As I keep saying 2 YEARS AGO WE DID HAVE A YOUTH SIDE representing Welling United in the Kent Youth League and no doubt we would have been having the same debate if anyone involved with them also had a role in the Senior setup at another Club.
The fact remains the majority of the squad were year 1 Under 18's and one would have expected the Year 2's who left to be replaced by recruiting year 1 and/or year 2 players. Another year's development (both physical and footballing) within WUY with Kingsmoor may have made all the difference in terms of the senior managements evaluation of those who have chosen to leave.
The introduction of Corinthians into the Welling United family does I agree add another dimension to the situation. There is very little in the public domain about this but I would venture to suggest that the reserve team being managed by former? Corinthian personnel has more than a little to do with what happened to last year's KYL U18's.
-- Edited by bruno at 02:43, 2008-09-14
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
In order to try and maintain a reasoned exchange of views I would ask all to refrain from personal abuse which detracts from the debate and confine any further posts to the subject matter.
It would also surely be helpful to those taking part in the discussion to know with whom they are disussing the issue rather than posting anonymously.
-- Edited by bruno at 02:51, 2008-09-14
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
I feel that it would be a good piece of investigative journalism to look at the conflict between Kingsmoor and Corinthians. The quotes by people who appear to be involved with Kingsmoor appear to be critical of the Reserve set up. If we dont get someone from the Shopper to ask Barry, Barrie and Andy outright what the situation is, then perhaps it would be better if they were asked about the situtaion at a meet the manager event.
I also feel that the quotes from people representing Kingsmoor appear unprofessional and whether the club should be made aware of this.
Right i have done a little digging around, it appears that Corinthians have youth teams from U13's - U18's all of whom play in the Kent youth league, the same leagues as Welling with Kingsmoor youth teams.
Secondly the reserves appear to play under our name, but in Corinthians colours at Corinthians ground. This suggests to me that (and i could be wrong so don't quote me!) that maybe the reserves is run by Corinthians, having been created using mainly Corinthians youth team players who played for their U18's last season. I say this because on their site, the managers of the U18's are a certain, Declan Molyneux, Ian Starkey, and Bonze Billings who are stated as the reserve team management on our official site!
This is the interesting bit, with such blurred lines between Welling United and Corinthians, how does players feeding into the team work? If Corinthians have youth teams and we also have youth teams possibly feeding into just the one team possibly run by Corinthians, this maybe where the conflict between Welling with Kingsmoor and the reserves generates from.
An extract form the Welling United Youth with Kingsmoor website:
Following on from the success of some of last seasons U18 squad in pushing through to Reserve level, or representing the 1st team in Cup games, there has been a further development recently. For this season, a Welling United Reserve team has been entered and are competing in the Kent League Division 2. The squad enjoy outstanding facilities at Gay Dawn Farm, the Home of Corinthian FC, in Longfield. Current Managers are Declan Molyneaux and Ian Starkey, both ex Welling FC players who managed the Corinthian U18s last season. The side is predominately made up of young players hoping to don the First Team shirt in the future. This structure opens a route for talented young players to step up into Reserve level football at U16, U18 or U19.
Although very much in its infancy, this new initiative is an exciting time for all aspiring Welling United Youth with Kingsmoor members. Welling United, Welling Reserves and Welling United Youth are working together positively to develop structured exit routes into Senior Football for all young players involved. We all have the same aim at heart at this level, to develop players with potential who will eventually represent the First Team.
An excellent example of different facets of this structure pulling together was the recent FA Youth Cup, where 4 members of Welling United Youth made themselves available at short notice as substitutes to finalise the squad of mainly Reserve players. Wearing that shirt, under floodlights at PVR, was I know an honour to them and gave them a taster of possibilities to come.
Great idea for WUY with Kingsmoor to produce a monthly roundup of things related to it, the first of which was posted by Liz today and covers the position re their ground and the positive link with the reserve side.
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YOUTH are the future
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"The worst thing you can do is make a committment and not meet it and I understand that." Barrie Hobbins 14 August 2010
I do love being called an idiot by a two faced parasite! Wheres that "interview" where he slated the club....
I digress...
The SIMPLE FACT is the conflict of interests. I also add in the fact that they have produced NOT ONE PLAYER.
Lets gloss over the INCORRECT statement about not having a youth team two years ago lol. After all Dumb and Dumber are never wrong are they. And instead of anonymous little pops, sign your posts off and identify yourself you lamers.
I do like the exit routes that are being built and investigated a good idea, clarification on who are welling youth, welling reserves etc and are they SOLELY to produce players or represent Welling United would be good.
I think a lot of the issues are because of the vaigueness of a lot of it.
If Rosie and Jim didnt "operate" for 2 clubs at least (i think they both are involved elsewhere too!! then i would be reasonably happy they are acting 100% in the best interests of Welling United.
Barrie and Barrie have sorted the first team level and are trying to do the right thing. It would be nice if there was a nice spread in the local paper letting people know the facts regarding the youth and reserves set up and aims of both.
