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Danson Mark


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Staying at Welling on a non contract!!

Further stability can only be good news.

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JgFc


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Hes calling the shots there and can piss off when he likes this way, I wouldnt get too excited.

We could be left right in the ****e, i can understand why he didnt want to sign straight away. But he should sign a contract if he does stay as its being fair to the club and the fans.

If he gets a move away to a higher club then Welling will benefit from helping him progress.

Its a muted positive thing for me, Its like i will stay but i want to be free to go when i want.

Not exactly committing to the Club like the rest of the players have by signing contracts.

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Dogme


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I was happy when i saw that he was staying with us, but then i noticed the bit about a non contract and now I'm not impressed at all. He'll leave as soon as he has his first arguement with Jaimie. He might as well leave now, so we can get a forward that will stay with us.

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JgFc


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The benefit with Whitnell not signing a contract at this stage is Jamie can just release him if a striker becomes available. Not sure what kind of contract (sounds silly but he will still have an agreement with the club) he will be on if he gets injured or suspended. Pay as you play?

I would like him to sign a proper contract or Jamie to bring in a striker and release Whitnell.



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Chris


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Would prefer it if Tommy had signed a contract,  which I am guessing was offerd to him, but i'm glad he's staying.

You've made the right decision Tommy- other clubs fans are n't quite as supportive as Wings supporters. If you can beef up a bit over the summer you have real potential of playing at a higher level.

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MarkX


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Is it that Jamie didnt want him on a contract.......I am going to guess that is more the case not the other way round...If it were the other way round I think he would have let him go

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JgFc


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Mark , considering this is the headline that Kentonline used

Welling striker Tom Whitnell given ultimatum over new contract by manager Jamie Day

I doubt it, the only way i can see it being a Daisy thing is if hes increased his wages for the first month but wont commit to that over a season.

I am sure it will come out in the wash. At the moment it makes Whitnell look a bit of a toby. That could be because we dont know the facts, but the percentage call given the previous events would suggest to me that its the player who has declined to sign a contract.

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chelwing


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If Whitnell thinks that he may get a better offer elsewhere, then he needs to score lots of goals at the beginning of the season to prove himself. If he does that can only benefit us - Jamie can keep an eye out for another striker.

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GaryH


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Staying at Welling on a non contract

Doesn't this mean he can leave anytime he wants. He could get an offer today, next week or whenever. Much preferred most players on a contract.

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Kevin


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Also means we can ditch him as soon as we like as well. I dont think he is as good as some are suggesting. I think it gives both parties flexiblity, and if he is non-contract he will be playing his heart out to prove Jamie should offer him more, or to impress other clubs, either way its good for Welling.

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Danson Mark


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The good news is that eight of the eight names Jamie Day offered have agreed to stay.

How important is the contract / non contract business? I seem to think I once read that Charlie Mitten has never been on a contract but that did not cause a panic.

Any club who might be interested will have to make a seven day approach anyway.


 

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bruno


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I am and always have been of the firm view that players on the retained list should either accept or reject the offers made, whichever they decide ultimately being their decision. Since those on the retained list are obviously seen as having a part to play in the coming season I would expect the offer to be of a contracted nature though in the current climate I suppose that it is not beyond the realms of possibility that non contract terms could have been offered.

If a contract was offered to Tommy then obviously my view is that he should have signed or rejected the offer. If the £ notes offered were not enough then by all means he is free to reject the offer and try to get more elsewhere. The uncertainty generated by non contract terms during pre- season is in my view not helpful to the Club and the Manager which is where my loyalty lies.

What hasn't been picked up from the announcement on the official site is that Loui despite saying he would stay by the deadline set by Jamie still hasn't put pen to paper and therefore actually committed. It may be that he is on holiday or something so I don't want to jump in with both feet but if he is around why hasn't he signed and is he too seeking non contract terms?

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bruno


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Danson Mark wrote:

The good news is that eight of the eight names Jamie Day offered have agreed to stay.

How important is the contract / non contract business? I seem to think I once read that Charlie Mitten has never been on a contract but that did not cause a panic.

Any club who might be interested will have to make a seven day approach anyway.



I would have thought that taking players on non contract terms before the start of the season is a big gamble if the player wants those terms because they are actively seeking more £ notes than the Club have offered and/or want to be able to leave without the encumbrance of a transfer fee/compensation payment.

What comfort is a 7 day approach if during the last week or so before the season starts there are 2 or 3 of them?

The reverse side of the coin of course is that if another player of equal or better standard emerges from the trialists the non contracted player turns out the lights on the way out.


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Danson Mark


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bruno wrote:

What hasn't been picked up from the announcement on the official site is that Loui despite saying he would stay by the deadline set by Jamie still hasn't put pen to paper and therefore actually committed. It may be that he is on holiday or something so I don't want to jump in with both feet but if he is around why hasn't he signed and is he too seeking non contract terms?
Where does Loui live? It could be that there has not been a suitable time for Loui and the club to get together to put pen to paper.

Have all the others who have agreed terms actually signed contracts? Highly doubtful I would think, especially those living far away.

How many players have said they would sign and then go back on their word over the years? Neil Trebble is the only one who comes to mind immediately.

 



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Danson Mark


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bruno wrote:

Danson Mark wrote:

The good news is that eight of the eight names Jamie Day offered have agreed to stay.

How important is the contract / non contract business? I seem to think I once read that Charlie Mitten has never been on a contract but that did not cause a panic.

Any club who might be interested will have to make a seven day approach anyway.



I would have thought that taking players on non contract terms before the start of the season is a big gamble if the player wants those terms because they are actively seeking more £ notes than the Club have offered and/or want to be able to leave without the encumbrance of a transfer fee/compensation payment.

What comfort is a 7 day approach if during the last week or so before the season starts there are 2 or 3 of them?

The reverse side of the coin of course is that if another player of equal or better standard emerges from the trialists the non contracted player turns out the lights on the way out.
Jamie Day has agreed to it and Tom Whitnell has agreed to it. If both are happy then I see no need to be concerned. Maybe both are taking a gamble but both parties are aware of that.

I'm with Kevin on this!

 



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JgFc


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Didnt it say weeks ago that Lee Clarke would be signing within days? Did he?



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JgFc


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As for being ok with non contract. Any situation that leaves us open to being bent over is not "ok" and never will be.

Once is too often.

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Sidcup Graham


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I guess without the detail we'll never know....however, assuming we offered Tommy a contract, but he stays on non-contract terms, I wonder if due to his age we would still be due a payment by his new club?

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JgFc


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Only if we offered him at least equal to what he was on last season and from what he indirectly posted on here, that wasnt the case. Unless Jamie has offered that since to protect us and get us a fee if he goes.



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MarkX


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Well for me the issue was a couple of seasons back or indeed last season that we ended up with players on contract we wanted to go and others on non contract we couldnt sign

I am with another post above that says that I want to see Tommy score goals with a different partner.....Pugh made a lot of Tommys goals and they dried up when Pugh went

Tommy I thought looked a little lost without a strike partner and however well Clarkie did (and I think his best position is just behind the front two) he wasnt the man to help Tommy

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bruno


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Danson Mark wrote:

 

bruno wrote:

What hasn't been picked up from the announcement on the official site is that Loui despite saying he would stay by the deadline set by Jamie still hasn't put pen to paper and therefore actually committed. It may be that he is on holiday or something so I don't want to jump in with both feet but if he is around why hasn't he signed and is he too seeking non contract terms?
Where does Loui live? It could be that there has not been a suitable time for Loui and the club to get together to put pen to paper.

Have all the others who have agreed terms actually signed contracts? Highly doubtful I would think, especially those living far away.

How many players have said they would sign and then go back on their word over the years? Neil Trebble is the only one who comes to mind immediately.

Is where a player lives that relevant?  Welling aren't Chelsea or Man U and we aren't signing Ronaldo so there is no signing ceremony/press conference and contracts could easily be sent out and returned in the post for those living in more distant locations.  Postal signing of contracts with a future start date are used elsewhere and I can't see why we should be any different.

Maybe its just as well that I'm only a supporter.

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bruno


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MarkX wrote:

Well for me the issue was a couple of seasons back or indeed last season that we ended up with players on contract we wanted to go and others on non contract we couldnt sign

...


All Managers will drop a ricket on occasion and that has to be lived with.  When a failing Manager is replaced these rickets are often highlighted and limit (and no doubt frustrate) what the new Manager is able to do as he strives to make improvements.




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oldcoach


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bruno wrote:

What hasn't been picked up from the announcement on the official site is that Loui despite saying he would stay by the deadline set by Jamie still hasn't put pen to paper and therefore actually committed. It may be that he is on holiday or something so I don't want to jump in with both feet but if he is around why hasn't he signed and is he too seeking non contract terms?
Loui is in USA doing upgrade courses for his Personal Fitness Trainer Qualification .... he will no doubt sign when he returns, having given his word to Jamie. A welcher he is not ....!

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bruno


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Thanks for the info oldcoach, as I said he may be on holiday or something which would and does explain the situation.

There would have been no anxiety if the Club had said will sign on his return rather than to have consecutive news items a week apart one headed 'Fazakerley Signs' but in the text saying 'Loui Fazakerley is set to sign shortly'and a week later a repeat of the statement 'Loui Fazakerley is set to sign shortly.'

Bearing in mind that Loui kept the Club dangling till mid June last year while he weighed up his options (reportedly keeping the door open by speaking to Fordy regularly) I think one can be forgiven for any doubts which will evaporate once pen is put to paper.

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JgFc


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Cant blame Loui for this unless he said he would sign before he went away. If oldcoach says he will sign when he gets back thats good enough.

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Danson Mark


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oldcoach wrote:

Loui is in USA doing upgrade courses for his Personal Fitness Trainer Qualification .... he will no doubt sign when he returns, having given his word to Jamie. A welcher he is not ....!


He won't welch for the Welsh!!  smile

 



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Broken Wing


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Is there any news on those players who have been asked to come back for pre-season training? Have any of these been fixed up with other clubs i.e. Sonny Cobbs?

I was a bit surprised when Sam Hurrell was offered a deal over Dean Cracknell as he was very inconsistent last season, having only scored 1 goal in 35 apps when Cracknell scored 7 in 20! Maybe Jamie is concern about Cracknell's fitness and also he may be looking at himself and Clarke being the central midfield for the next season?



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Kevin


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Either way, would be nice to hear on Cracknell and Hurrell as its all been quiet on those two so far and I think we should be looking to keep both. Cracknell didnt really have "fitness issues" ala Ferdinand or King where it is a repeat problem, he had a one off freak clash with a teammate that broke his ankle, and had been fine before and since. For me a great box to box midfielder at this level with workrate, a shot on him, bravery, and most importantly, the right attitude. Get them signed up Jamie.

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Broken Wing


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Don't forget that Cracknell was injured in the early part of the season and was out for a few weeks. I think it was the same ankle? Can anybody confirm this?

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JgFc


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Cracknell looks a must, he tries his balls off, scores goals, is a nice bloke and IF he can stay fit he will get the goals like Hanlon did 15-20. He has legs too which will help Daisy or Clarkey. Plus you can sling him forward if needed or play at the back. (During a game tactically or for injury cover)

Would have been one of the first names on the sheet for contracts for me.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 26th of May 2010 05:22:44 PM

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Dave


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Dear Kev and JGFC, you've just confirmed that neither of you have got a clue as to how to win a football match. 
1, As to Cracknell being good at shooting is laughable.
2, And as being a nice bloke does not make you a footballer.
3, Glad you two aren't managing our club. Surely you two must be related


-- Edited by Dave on Wednesday 26th of May 2010 06:55:31 PM

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MarkX


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Dave...How many games did you go to

Cracknell gave the team the bite that it lacked in certain games,,,,I certainly didnt see too many tackles that he pulled out of

I would certainly keep him

Secondly...Hurrell...I wonder if something from Wengers mentality has rubbed off on Jamie via Liam Brady....Wenger i think checks the speed of the player then makes them a player

Jamie wants pace and artistry too

I think the team we will have WILL on occasions delight us as supporters

Whether that is good enough to be in the top 5...of course I dont know but.....

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JgFc wrote:

Cracknell looks a must, he tries his balls off, scores goals, is a nice bloke and IF he can stay fit he will get the goals like Hanlon did 15-20. He has legs too which will help Daisy or Clarkey. Plus you can sling him forward if needed or play at the back. (During a game tactically or for injury cover)

Would have been one of the first names on the sheet for contracts for me.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 26th of May 2010 05:22:44 PM


Dean would have been in my group of players to keep on a contract

 



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Dave


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BOOM BOOM BALLY wrote:

 

JgFc wrote:

Cracknell looks a must, he tries his balls off, scores goals, is a nice bloke and IF he can stay fit he will get the goals like Hanlon did 15-20. He has legs too which will help Daisy or Clarkey. Plus you can sling him forward if needed or play at the back. (During a game tactically or for injury cover)

Would have been one of the first names on the sheet for contracts for me.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 26th of May 2010 05:22:44 PM


Dean would have been in my group of players to keep on a contract

 

 



So what you're saying is that you're not pleased with your managements decisions. Maybe you, JGFC and Kev should be picking the team, but take of those rose tinted glasses first, they've been released for a reason.



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BOOM BOOM BALLY


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Dave wrote:

 

BOOM BOOM BALLY wrote:

 

JgFc wrote:

Cracknell looks a must, he tries his balls off, scores goals, is a nice bloke and IF he can stay fit he will get the goals like Hanlon did 15-20. He has legs too which will help Daisy or Clarkey. Plus you can sling him forward if needed or play at the back. (During a game tactically or for injury cover)

Would have been one of the first names on the sheet for contracts for me.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 26th of May 2010 05:22:44 PM


Dean would have been in my group of players to keep on a contract

 

 



So what you're saying is that you're not pleased with your managements decisions. Maybe you, JGFC and Kev should be picking the team, but take of those rose tinted glasses first, they've been released for a reason.


We all have different opi"onions" thats what makes it intresting and the discussions are healthy - not heard much from Mr Charlotte thou

IE - I'am sure we would all pick different teams for England - None of us are right or wrong

AND DIFFERENT TEAMS FROM CAPELLO - DOES NOT MEAN WE DON'T RATE HIM AS A GOOD MANAGER - GET THE IMPRESSION HE'S MAN MANAGEMENT SKILLS ARE GOOD, ALONG THE SAME LINES AS SIR BOBBY ROBSON

 With regards Jamie - i feel Welling have choosen well, both as player and manager ( believe he will one day make a football league manager) as against the aggresive manner of the previous manager



-- Edited by BOOM BOOM BALLY on Thursday 27th of May 2010 09:00:25 AM

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Kevin


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Dave wrote:

Dear Kev and JGFC, you've just confirmed that neither of you have got a clue as to how to win a football match. 

1, As to Cracknell being good at shooting is laughable.
2, And as being a nice bloke does not make you a footballer.
3, Glad you two aren't managing our club. Surely you two must be related


-- Edited by Dave on Wednesday 26th of May 2010 06:55:31 PM
Dave, why are my opinions wrong but yours right ??

Cracknell scored several goals from midfield this season having missed several games as well due to injury, and I seem to remember him hitting two 30yards strikes that both smashed the post in the space of 5minutes back in Sept/Oct. As I said, he has a shot on him, I dont think that can be disputed. Whether they go in or not is another matter I guess.

Why must we be related ?? Because we both recognise a good player ?? Others have also shared my view on Cracknell, I must be related to all of them ... one big Welling family. Tool.

 



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Kevin


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Dave wrote:

BOOM BOOM BALLY wrote:

 

JgFc wrote:

Cracknell looks a must, he tries his balls off, scores goals, is a nice bloke and IF he can stay fit he will get the goals like Hanlon did 15-20. He has legs too which will help Daisy or Clarkey. Plus you can sling him forward if needed or play at the back. (During a game tactically or for injury cover)

Would have been one of the first names on the sheet for contracts for me.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 26th of May 2010 05:22:44 PM


Dean would have been in my group of players to keep on a contract

 

 



So what you're saying is that you're not pleased with your managements decisions. Maybe you, JGFC and Kev should be picking the team, but take of those rose tinted glasses first, they've been released for a reason.


Nice bloke doesnt make you a decent footballer no, but I think JGFC was getting at the point that he doesnt seem the sort of character to hold the club to ransom or take the pi55 like others have in the past. He will also work his nuts off for the cause and give complete commitment. This is important in my view as one bad egg can unsettle the whole team. How many people would want El Hadji Duouf, or however you spell it, in their team ??

Also, they have not been released, they have been invited back pre-season. I would sign him, others would sign him, only one has said they wouldnt. General opinion rightly or wrongly is that he should be staying.

As for rose-tinted spectacles, I dare not ask your views on Whitnell ...

 



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Wingnut


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The  "Cracknell" debate seems to have divided the supporters but I can't say that I am all that fussed if he doesn't stay.

He did have some good moments and does score a few goals but too often I felt the games passed him by. Not sure he wants to play second fiddle to a Day/Clarke combo which would certainly be the choice for me and he might be an expensive luxury to have sitting on the bench.

And as for "he never pulls out of a tackle.........." had he done precisely that at Lewes then things might have been different..........

Good luck to him whether he stays or goes



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chelwing


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I am with you Wingnut - good squad player but may be better out there.

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JgFc


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Chelwing the point is can WE get better than Dean for the right money? If we can or could have and Jamie has one lined up i can understand offering pre season to some players. Doesnt look like it to be fair, as we have signed no one that we didnt have last season yet.

But i would rather have that than plyers released from Dartford. I would imagine Cracknell will be better than anyone realeased from a Ryman side (having said that... Cobbs could run him close but hes young and not 43 like the Dartford pair.)

We know what Cracknell can do, hes busy, fit and scored 7 in 20 games. Thats a better ratio than some strikers in this league.

I have no problem with Daisy releasing people or not offering contracts but the proviso is bring in someone to replace them who are PROVEN better at our standard.

-- Edited by JgFc on Thursday 27th of May 2010 08:35:20 PM

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