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Danson Mark


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Eric Brackstone wrote:

It is understandable that supporters are becoming anxious waiting for news updates and I fully appreciate the frustration that is building up daily.

Barrie has kept me updated throughout the negotiations with all the latest developments, but has also requested that he will make the announcements via the website when he feels it is the right time to do so. I must respect his wishes on this, as it is his prerogative to request this, being one of the owners of our club.

I can tell in the tone of his voice that it is his wish to announce the outcome ASAP, but equally, these kind of negotiations do take time to reach agreement.

Be patient, although it is getting us all down each day that passes by, but very soon our club could be in a much stronger position than it has been of late, if both sides do reach an agreement.


but very soon our club could be in a much stronger position than it has been of late, if both sides do reach an agreement.

IF - such a small word yet so, so important!!!

 



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Exec lounge Bertie


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Worryingly, is it "if" rather than "when"?

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JgFc


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Worryingly we seem to have put all our eggs in this basket. This is the way the club have decided to go about it.

Its very worrying that Talks have gone on for weeks and weeks , it suggests to me the investors dont have the money or only just have the money.

In 3 months that have passed we could have aggressively targeted all business in the locals area with brochures and national companies.

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chelwing


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It is now a week since we were told that there may be some news. I am not sure what to make of the lack of infomation. I am thinking that it is probably a good thing - it means that talks are continuing.

On the other hand if was bad news - would we be told? And when?

Probabaly best not to think at all.

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JgFc


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Maidstone announced who their investors were they were talking to, we havent. Ok a few of us have heard who they are but no one really knows as its just rumour.

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Kevin


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Its not good news, its a week overdue, if talks are on going then a deal isnt done, we are a week closer to the deadline but no closer to receiving money

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Ok, everybody do more Lotto and Euro lottery entries!  A very long shot, I know, but it would be wonderful if a supporter trumped the investment negotiations.

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Spills


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I think another Statement is needed. Even if it is bad news just knowing the situaion gives us longer to look at our options but with no news everyone is in limbo.

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JgFc


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What worries me is we dont have contingency plans. We should be being ruthless commercially as if the investors say no we have raised more money and got closer to the target and made our case stronger to plead for more time.

Lets say, worst case scenario investors drop out. We will have a month or so to raise 50-60k.

IF we do fail then it will be because we have put all eggs in one basket and let 5 months go by without going all out commercially and locally.

I have said more or less the same. what gets me is if we knew in July we had to pay the deby why on earth did we have 3 home friendlies. 4 or 5 more friendlies at home would have seen 500 gates each and thats 20-25k extra raised.



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JgFc


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Having said all that, if the club do seal the investors involvement and committment i will be the first to say well done for concentrating on it but i do feel its very risky. Negotiations can be tricky it would be nice to know what the sticking points are and how likely it is that it will be successful so people can plan other initiatives.

Trying to arrange a meeting and raising 50k in a month is handcuffing our ability to survive if the investors string it out.



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Exec lounge Bertie


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I don't pretend to know the financial complexities, neither do I know the regulations involving administration.  But is it possible that a club can go into administration first before an investor willing to take over is found by the administrator?

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Greendale


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There is a WSU meeting on Thursday evening.  If the club has not put out a statement before then, I suspect a few extra people might attend in the hope of finding out if anyone has any idea of what the situation is.  It will also be interesting to see if the commercial managers attend as they did last time.  It would be nice to know what they have achieved.

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Exec lounge Bertie


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Perhaps the Hobbins are reluctant to post informatiion until a deal is signed.  I can understand that, but it does nothing for my nerves.

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Ron Manager


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Greendale writes

"It will also be interesting to see if the commercial managers attend as they did last time. It would be nice to know what they have achieved."

--------------------------

I share this View with you, They attended the WSU meeting gave out the same ideas as the WSU and spoke of how they could Help with these options.

Some of "their" ideas were as if they Had read some of the forum and then said we can do this we and have done that before etc......STILL WAITING LADS !!

They had claimed they could bring in more People to golf day plus said they would attend themselves. I may be wrong but i was told only 16 attended which was the original amount quoted at the meeting.



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Russ


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Greendale wrote:

There is a WSU meeting on Thursday evening.  If the club has not put out a statement before then, I suspect a few extra people might attend in the hope of finding out if anyone has any idea of what the situation is.



I hope not - WSU meetings are for discussing WSU business not for hijacking by gossip mongers.

The club shouldn't have said anything to those at Weston - all it did was create a pack of rabid dogs.

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JgFc


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Ah, we are back to the them, us and factions ways then? Just tell those supporters who need to know and feck the rest Russ?



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JgFc


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Im a bit gobsmacked by that post from Russ to be fair. Obviously you are happy at no news and another week gone. I am sure that as the "leader" of the off field supporters drives, you have plans in place and meetings scheduled for the remaining 6 weeks or so. When was our last meeting 6 weeks ago? so we have just done precious little in 6 weeks and let the club get on with it.

Maybe you know a lot more than the other fans and are calm and confident in the club sealing the investors , maybe thats why we have had no meetings or posts from those who called the meetings?

To call fans Gossip mongers after they had gone a month with no news or meetings is taking the p1ss. I am sure they are delighted by your comments and will all attend any future meetins if any are called at the drop of a hat or any long winded speech demanding they sell kidneys or canvass on the streets etc.

I think the fans have been very supportive since the announcement, on forums and at the club. Statements like yours could be potentially divisive and elitist Russ.

For many years the fans were mushrooms here, the fact the club opened up as it was in dire financial straights and needed help saw many fans come together. If you want the mushroom days to return and elite fans in the know then good luck squire.

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chelwing


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Russ wrote:


I hope not - WSU meetings are for discussing WSU business not for hijacking by gossip mongers.

The club shouldn't have said anything to those at Weston - all it did was create a pack of rabid dogs.

I am very surprised by your post Russ. It has been said many times on this forum that if you want an update then speak to the Hobbins. Even ring them up - they are happy to talk. Now when we do, we are criticised - or at least the Hobbins are for being honest about the situtation.

Sadly when there is a big gap of news - gossip will fill that gap - I think that is human nature. Many people have a real fear that the club will go under if this investment is not forth coming and you can not blame them for being anxious - it will leave a big gap in people's lifes.

The information from the club has been really poor throughout this crisis - there are many posts about that. A few lines a week ago was fine at the time but we need to hear more. 



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Exec lounge Bertie


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I am a bit disappointed by your outburst, Russ.   And I know you and your colleagues are doing a good job and putting a lot of effort into fundraising. But "WSU is for WSU business"...etc?  Surely supporters are entitled to glean whatever information they can about the club's future from whatever avenue possible - especially if they dug deep for dosh immediately at the first, packed, WSU meeting to discuss the crisis?  I thought the WSU meetings were open to all supporters, so why not take the opportunity to brief them on what the WSU is doing and try to enlist further support?  You will always get gossip, especially when information is scarce. But the knack is to turn that into a positive outcome -ie a well-attended WSU meeting to back people like you on the committee by discussing further ways of helping the Wings out of the mire.




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JgFc


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Bertie the fans meetings wasnt a WSU meeting. It was a meeting called by Russ and Matt not the WSU. All meetings 3? (1 of which no one knew about) since have also not been WSU meetings.

The money donated has not been done via WSU but via the appeal. The money COULD have gone in an appeal fund and then passed over should it have been enough to save the club. Had that happened you would have had the money to form a new club AFC Welling.

Russ has decided where the appeal goes and what it does and when meetings happen NOT the WSU. I believe that Russ and Matt are the heads of the appeal so any news or questions should be aimed at them about Meetings, what is being done by them and what are their plans. Based on the fact that they have called and chaired the meetings and visited the club prior to the first meeting to tell them they were calling a meeting etc.

I sense a huge slap in the face for Welling fans from Russ here and if gloves are now off i wil start a thread showing where we have been a complete shambles in trying to raise this money and not at the races for the last 2 months.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 11:37:16 AM

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chelwing


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Probably my ignorance - but I actaully thought the sponser a player money went to the WSU and has not been released to the club, and therefore would be available if it all goes tits up.

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JgFc


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lol... Ask Russ if hes got 10k sitting there in appeal or WSU accounts, theres your answer.

We havent even had a treasurer in the appeal


I think everyone should have their say now that russ has attacked the fans. I have a very large post ready to go about this whole appeal campaign (note not an attack on the club at all but the disorganisation and lack of maximising the supporters efforts)

And here it is below, it might wake a few up when and if we get told the investors havent signed...


Its probably a good thing that Russ has attacked the fans as it allows those who were biting their lips to have their say and not sit in silence.





-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 11:55:37 AM

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JgFc


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.. OK GLOVES OFF... here goes...

1 ORGANISE the fans, have a committee not one person deciding whats done. Should have been the first thing done. We spent Two meetings arranging flyers that took a month to sort out.
2 FIND THE CORE SKILLS and USE THEM, commercial, marketing, time magement etc etc
3 COMMUNICATE, weve had no meetings for weeks and no news from the club or the people running the appeal. HAVE YOU GIVEN UP
4 CONTINGENCIES, whats plan b guys? A mass leaflet drop? everyone email every company they can think of? Have a meeting? (you may want to tell people about it in advance)

We have been a total shambles in this appeal, unorganised and clueless in maximising things. And before any of you say YOU DO IT .... WE never had the chance, Russ put himself there and never organised it or arranged a committee.

We have sales Managers, Office Managers, I.T people , etc etc and NONE of them were taken on board.

NOW WAKE UP FFS, we have 6 weeks left to save the club. ORGANISATION and COMMUNICATION or turn the lights out.

You put yourself in position so either piss off or sort it out and by attacking the fans today youve probably brought the situation to a head and alllowed the gloves to come off and people to get the situation clear.

Its possibly too late now to organise the fans and utilise the skills weve sat and sucked our thumbs waiting for meetings to be called or the club to announce theyve raised the money themselves.

Seems to me Russ stood up said what can we do and then when all thats came after the sponsored shirts was flyers and a gig or two and Auction ,he just threw his head in his hand gave up and did a long speech on here for people to raise the money. Well done on raising 10k for the taxman Russ.

The last 2 months have seen a meeting not announced and f*ck all else (that will make an impact in 50 grand) from this appeal.

You started superbly Russ, ran out of steam, failed to organise things and put any foundations or footings in and then youve attacked the fans and given an elitist attitude.

Now you can take this on board and kick on or you can come back with digs or you can step down.

Weve had no news from those organising the appeal, who is organising it? Anyone? Whats the scores on the doors? Wait for the the yes or no from the investors then ask for a friendly with Barcelona when we have 12 hours left?

Whats dissapointing is that the old us and them had been eradicated, everyone was on the same side, then we get fans attacked and name called by someone alledgedly organising the appeal.



-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 01:00:48 PM

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bruno


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Greendale wrote:

There is a WSU meeting on Thursday evening.  If the club has not put out a statement before then, I suspect a few extra people might attend in the hope of finding out if anyone has any idea of what the situation is.  It will also be interesting to see if the commercial managers attend as they did last time.  It would be nice to know what they have achieved.


I'm not sure why people should think that WSU participants know any more than anybody else. 

If Eric, who as Club President has been kept updated throughout the negotiations, is at the meeting he will be doing so as a supporter of the Club.  As he has already quite rightly said he has to respect that any privileged information he may have has to remain confidential. 

Where are we in terms of potential investors? Well, Barrie told me last Friday when I saw him that negotiations are still ongoing and it appeared to me that he was still in a positive frame of mind about them. Surely, since Barrie has always said that supporters can phone him about the current position, if anybody wants to know if there have been any further developments the best thing to do is give him a call on 020 8301 1196.

From a purely personal perspective I would hope that people were not attending a WSU meeting purely to try and find out what the current position is regarding the potential investors as I fear that they will be disappointed since it is a matter outside of the WSU remit.

I've no idea if the commercial managers will be in attendance but if they had had any great success I'm sure we would have heard about it. 

Again from a purely personal perspective if they do attend they do so as Club officials and their sole remit is to keep themselves up to date with what WSU are organising which ensures that effort is not being wasted through duplication and to discuss any potential joint events .  I realise though that it is unrealistic to think that they would not be asked what they had achieved so far. The crucial point from my perspective is that any discussion about what the commercial managers have or have not done so far should not be the primary reason people attend the meeting.

I don't see this as an elitist them and us situation as suggested by JgFc it's a matter of what groups remits are and WSU is quite appropriately in my view independent of the Club and its participants have no better information than is available to any other supporter.  Again from a purely personal perspective my view is that it is business as usual with WSU's fundraising efforts and that is what Thursdays meeting will be about.

We are all frustrated by the uncertainty about the future of the Club but negotiations are obviously sensitive I'm sure that if the Club posted on the official website each week that negotiations are ongoing that would not make the frustration any less.  I'm sure that as soon as the matter is concluded be it positive or negative Barrie will make a statement on the official website.

 



-- Edited by bruno on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 12:04:53 PM

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chelwing


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Wow the gloves are certainly off...

We must get a solution - we don't want to spend the next 6 weeks in fighting each other whilst we go under.

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Kev


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As was discussed at the last supporters meeting a separate appeal fund account is being opened in order to keep the money raised separate from the WSU funds. However the bank have returned the form to us needing further information, this should be completed at the meeting on Thursday.

And before anyone passes comment its only being done at the meeting because the people who have volunteered to be signatories will all be there.

What I think Russ meant by his comment is there is no point people coming to the WSU meeting in the hope of finding out what is happening with the investors, as the only people who know the answer to that question would be the club owners who do not as a rule attend the meetings.



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JgFc


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Thats fine kev but the further comment that the club shouldnt have told the fans who had travelled a long way any news... was out of order.

It stinks of elitism and factions.

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chelwing


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JgFc wrote:

Thats fine kev but the further comment that the club shouldnt have told the fans who had travelled a long way any news... was out of order.

And ignores the fact that the owners were more than happy to talk to those who travelled and I personally respect them for that.

 



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JgFc


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I think its certain that the post from Russ has inflamed the situation and unsettled people.

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JgFc


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What gets to me is Some people have over the decades spent enough money to have bought a house on Welling and then to get that "You dont need to know" attitude from someone organising the appeal is a kick in the teeth.

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JgFc


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I have still not seen a flyer. WHO decided what went on them? Who is organising the delivery campaign or are they just dumped at the ground and get on with it?

Is anyone arranging commercial activities or has anyone contacted the commercial managers to see what theyve done or if they are still breathing? After all ,if they have done face to face or mail drops in the local area, then we dont want to duplicate it.

Could anybody please tell me what the **** is going on or is planned , as i dont have a clue what is being done: that will make a difference. or whos still in charge of this appeal and overseeing it.

Are there any meetings planned? Whats happening with the supporters trust? Rumoured Share issues?

Riddle me this Russ, IF the club cant raise the money via investors and the fact you think they shouldnt tell us anything.... What do we do if we get a months notice... and why the feck have we done nothing for 8-10 weeks and also, do you think we have been organised in this appeal and maximised our efforts and utilised all the tools we have?

Shambles i am afraid and not sure that 6 weeks is enough time to shape up. Damage has been done.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 12:34:57 PM

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bruno


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Kev wrote:

 

As was discussed at the last supporters meeting a separate appeal fund account is being opened in order to keep the money raised separate from the WSU funds. However the bank have returned the form to us needing further information, this should be completed at the meeting on Thursday.

And before anyone passes comment its only being done at the meeting because the people who have volunteered to be signatories will all be there.

What I think Russ meant by his comment is there is no point people coming to the WSU meeting in the hope of finding out what is happening with the investors, as the only people who know the answer to that question would be the club owners who do not as a rule attend the meetings.

 


I think you are right about Russ' intentions Kev but its very unfortunate that he chose to use the terms he did to describe supporters.

As far as either Barrie or Barry attending WSU meetings goes they only do so if they ask to attend or if WSU ask them and to the best of my knowledge neither has happened this month.

 



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Exec lounge Bertie


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This is not the time to divide supporters regardless of our difference of opinions.  The WSU is the only game in town to unite the supporters behind fundraising initiatives.  If the Wings can be saved, then the first task of the WSU should be to call a meeeting to consider seriously the formation of a properly constituted, subscription-based, supporters association, whose officers are elected by the membership.




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JgFc


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Something i have been saying FOR YEARS Bertie.

Im afraid that after today the them and us still very much exists amongst the supporters, with some believing they are the tits and elitist when they are in fact self elected and lacking in steam and organisation.

The supporters should (as they have been doing lately pull together) not be called rabid or gossipers or not be told about meetings.

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 02:46:48 PM

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Moo


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I don't think it's appropriate to turn this into a thread dissing Russ; he has done more than most of us to try to keep our club alive. Perhaps if we had all done as much we'd be bit closer to the target. Let's all take a look at ourselves and think about one thing we could do to raise money, even if it's just volunteering to organise another meeting soon.

I do, however, agree with the sentiments expressed by others that it was particularly unhelpful for concerned supporters to be dismissed as gossip-mongers or rabid dogs for simply wanting to know the latest information on potential investment. Also, as others have said, we have on several occasions been told to ask the club for the latest information, yet when the club give us an honest response this is criticised, too.

Let's concentrate now on pulling together to raise as much as we can through the auction night and other events that have been arranged for the fighting fund. However, there's only so much us supporters can do - we alone will not reach the massive total required; unfortunately, without firm funds coming into the club itself we'll struggle to get close to the target.

I do think the club have missed a trick here by not putting a simple weekly update on the site, even if it's a simple 'discussions are ongoing' message like last week. Once we're out of the current mess we need to club to be more open with the financial picture in future. I'm not suggesting they tell us every penny going in and out of the club, but a simple profit and loss sheet would do. Had we had such a thing during the last couple of seasons, alarm bells would have started ringing sooner for us supporters and the money raising schemes would have had more time to bed-in and raise money.


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bruno


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Exec lounge Bertie wrote:

 

This is not the time to divide supporters regardless of our difference of opinions.  The WSU is the only game in town to unite the supporters behind fundraising initiatives.  If the Wings can be saved, then the first task of the WSU should be to call a meeeting to consider seriously the formation of a properly constituted, subscription-based, supporters association, whose officers are elected by the membership.


I appreciate your particular somewhat unique circumstances Bertie but in principle what is being said is a supporters association should be set up by somebody so long as its done by somebody other than me and the only organised group of supporters is WSU so it should be them.

Why should the task of getting a supporters association off the ground be down to WSU whose sole function in the absence of a supporters association is fundraising?

I am and always have been pro the establishment of a supporters association and would be first in the queue to sign up (well behind JgFc) but it is quite a task to set one up and certainly more of a commitment than I personally am able to make.  However, the very fact that since the demise of WUISA there have been fairly regular calls for a supporters association and yet one does not exist surely tells us something.

As I have said only recently we are quick to crticise the Club for its perceived shortcomings but with very few exceptions we as supporters will put our hands in our pockets but when it comes to anything more we are no better organised.


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JgFc


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It tells us that wuisa was sabotaged and wsu sprung up with a mission statement soley to provide covered accomodation.

wuisa had over 100 paid members and raised funds. funds that have also been donated to wsu to provide a screen etc.
Whats the record attendance at a wsu meeting, that would show you all you need to know.
Well done for raising funds no one is taking that away. i refer you to the previous line.




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JgFc


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Just because someone does something , just because WSU sprung up hours after WUISA was sabotaged, doesnt make that the right thing to do, if WSU was the answer you would have 100 people at every WSU meeting not 5 or 6.

A supporters trust would be an improvement but we have heard no more on that.

If you did have an organisation where people joined i feel and it would seem so do others that it would be supported more and you would have more organisation and more skills to use in the fan base.

Many feel that WSU was set up with the remnants of the club formed friends of welling and those people who started WSU were self elected.

Those that have run the campaign again self elected. How is that inviting more to get involved or using all the tools at your disposal. Especially when the organisation and communication have been dire over the last 2 months.

When people are in situ, you tend to accept they are there to organise things, its hard for others to get involved or say hang on i am not sure we should be doing that. I certainly dont see any appeals for people to join an association or committee and be accountable, its oh come and help and do a bit. Where is the organisation there?

-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 06:20:54 PM

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JgFc


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Bruno you would find that if the club had an active commercial department the supporters would do more. We have had barrie's addmittance that the businesses of Welling and the surrounding areas havent been contacted for "years".

We now have a commercial dept that even the club doesnt know what it has done or is doing but the club have pledged to find out and gee it up. Its a start.

I am not publicly critical at this time of what the club has done to get us in the situation we are in, we all knew the score, i am critical that it is not even now reforming to the levels it has to do to make sure if we get past HMRC there is a business model there where it will not happen again. Also i feel that we are not in this 14-20 weeks doing enough to try and raise the debt as a club.

You cannot expect the fans to find 60k and then raise another 100k without becoming more professional and going and getting money as a club.

I believe they want to get more professional and have at times been more open through necessity to gain support inn raising the money. I believe the future could be good. I am not convinced these 2 commercial managers are the answer and others agree.

To have NO NEWS in 2 months is pretty pathetic but the club took them on in good faith so fair play to the club and the blame is with the commercial managers who are being paid albeit by commission.

I also feel the supporters have been very patient and only now as time ticks on and no news is forthcoming and no meetings are happening, people are getting frustrated and posting some comments that wont go down well with all.

It can all be tidied up, but we are all over the place at the moment and everyone is worried.

My views were made at meetings re flyers and then getting commercially active, since then i havent been informed a meeting took place and i have received no communication from those running the appeals.
All ive heard is the excellent work of Patsy and the WSU in running gigs and auction. But that will NOT raise the money we need even though its helpful and respect and praise is warranted.

I get the feeling that aside from patsy , Sy and a few others people have given up as there is no communication about meetings.

The first thing that should have been done is getting a steering committee to share the load and peoples contact details to communicate. We did neither, how can you organise things and communicate when there is no way of doing it?

A case in point is the meeting that most never knew was on.

We have failed the club in their hour of need and i am ashamed i sat here and never demanded organisation and communication from the start because the last 2 months have been laughable as supporters.

We have acted how the club have been criticised in the past and i apologise personally to Barrie and Barry.



-- Edited by JgFc on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 06:38:01 PM

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Exec lounge Bertie


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Yes, Bruno, the "only organised" group of supporters is the WSU.  Therefore it makes sense for the WSU to use its auspices to set up a general meeting of supporters to establish a properly constituted supporters' organisation.  You will then see whether other supporters come forward to take up the cudgels.  If not, I bow to your superior knowledge of human behaviour. And I am awfully sorry that, as you have acknowledged, my geographical situation prevents me from participating as I would wish - other than contributing a not inconsiderable amount to the cause.

Individual supporters alone are not in the position to organise such a meeting, and why should they when the scope for organising one is already invested in the WSU. (Witness the rapidly called meeting to contribute dosh).  And what is the problem with a supporters' group ( Welling Supporters United) organising such a meeting?  Would it have to be held outwith the premises of Welling United?  Of course I recognise the work that the WSU is doing (Patsy especially) often without much thanks.  But please don't alienate people who cannot, because of their circumstances, contribute not much more than money.  Believe me, if I lived far, far, nearer you would know I was around!

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