The loan approach seem to be the only way to raise the money for the 15th. The loan is basically people buying their season tickets in advance for many years to come, as I am not sure how else they will get their money back.
So basically we are spending next years money - and the following years, now.
So this will leave us short for years to come.
So what is the plan to cope with this?
Will we have a reduction in the budget? Which could lead to relegation.
Is it hoped that with the HRMC off our backs, that investors may be more interested and that will make up the shortfall.
Will new investors, if they take over the club, honour the season ticket issue?
I can also see that with the Court case over we are in a better position to attract sponsorship etc. So our commercial department will need to make the most of this.
How do we pay the rest of the debts. It may be friendly debt at this time, but that may not always be the case.
Not being critical - just trying to get my head around it all. It seems pointless to pay off this debt and for things to continue as they are.
The shirt sponsorship raffle is a great idea and should have been done months ago.
Say 20 people loan them money thats 20 season tickets a year you have to sell extra to make up the peter and paul scenario.
New owners would honour advance season tickets.
3 Muskateer Consortium wanted hmrc debt cleared before investing??... HELLO?? sounds iffy to me, either they aint got any money or they want to scavange and make a quick buck from us.
Get past the HMRC and the new supporter input/representation and improved commercial department will help. Sorry but the current guy has to go, hes not up to it and will hinder any other efforts to bring in revenue streams.
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
As I read it you get paid out in season tickets or annually at the rate you require. With the annual repayment it comes down to what level of risk you are prepared to stand over how long. The long and the short of it is unless someone GIVES us the money we have to pay it back anyway. We are just transferring it to less demanding creditors. I believe you get preference on pay out if we are taken over.
I think we all accept we need a sustainable solution. If that is a smaller budget then that is what it'll have to be. We will just have to hope everyone else is forced into the same situation and we can survive at the current level. The bottom line is you can't have what we have at the moment. And it is an entirely different consideration to make when it comes down to it exposing your own money to more risk, however limited, than when it is someone else's
-- Edited by stafford on Sunday 5th of December 2010 02:33:40 PM
Benefits are supporters trust would work for the benefit of the club, or you are just giving it to some mercinaries who could waltz off when they liked.
More bodies, organisation and prospects with a constituted association or trust.
If the loans come through and we get by this, whats to say if things continue that we arent here again soon?
Supporters trust would help commercially and community wise, helping to create a hub at PVR and raising funds for the team or off field improvements. A supporter on the board is a start, as long as its not non executive which is as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
It looks our best bet to me.
-- Edited by JgFc on Sunday 5th of December 2010 03:15:36 PM
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
Don't suppose anyone knows the value of loans that have already been pledged to the club? After the first lot of forms were gathered in yesterday, there must be some kind of initial estimate of what we have.
the only way I can see you can really guarantee things change is for everyone to state a 2011 full repayment date. That way you are saying, ok we are here for the club now but if things don't change to general satisfaction then you are back in the same hole next year with absolutely no options unless someone is found to inject money with no strings. That, frankly, at the moment is not looking likely.
I agree with Stafford on this. The loans need to repayed quickly so any future investor doesn't have that burden or the club continue running at losses. Plus i can't see how the club can continue on crowds of 500, no commercial clout, loans to be repayed, debts to be sorted, VAT to pay.
If we get the 60k together to get the tax man off our backs then the club still needs to get investment urgently or new backers.
the only way I can see you can really guarantee things change is for everyone to state a 2011 full repayment date. That way you are saying, ok we are here for the club now but if things don't change to general satisfaction then you are back in the same hole next year with absolutely no options unless someone is found to inject money with no strings. That, frankly, at the moment is not looking likely.
Agree entirely and as Chelwing has stated, if people invest now, that could be next year and the subsequent years money for season tickets etc, being used now. So what will happen in future years? If the club has been losing £50k (?) per season, how on earth do they expect to pay back the fans that wish to invest? How can a potential new owner look at the mis-managed club and want to invest lots of money with the present owners in situ? Is that why we haven't managed to get suitable investors on board? Is our situation deeper than anyone else knows? What actually has stopped the other 'so called investors', investing in Welling United? Has there actually been such people? Why have the two Commercial managers jumped ship? Does anyone know just how many people (fans) have agreed to invest heavily in the club after the last meeting?
In my opinion the crap level on here has been even higher in the last 24 hours than usual. I'm not remotely in the inner circle of Welling United but people asking things such as why the loan scheme wasn't set up 14 weeks ago and why so little so late overlooks that the club believed new owners were coming in. Ok maybe they were naive but no one would have advised Welling to take the action they are now with new owners apparently on the verge of taking over the club.
As for the suggestion that those taking part in the loan scheme should request repayment by 2011, I'm sorry but I disagree. We need a bit of stability to avoid lurching the club from one crisis to another. If everyone requires repayment within 12 months then we'll be back to square one. If repayment isn't made is someone going to take legal action for recovery of the debt? I would urge people to look at the season ticket option. Ok I may be dead before my entitlement ever runs out but I'm sure my estate can live with that. I don't support the argument about future income either. No more than 30-40 people will invest in this which won't have a real impact on Welling's future income, particularly if the economy improves and a sponsor can be found.
I accept things can't continue as they are, we need to live within our means. Of course, that means no more carping on about a lack of ambition. If our means don't support a BSS club then that's something people need to live with, but to turn round in year one and say we want our £30k or whatever back is just madness. If people don't want to help out financially so be it and I'm well aware that a lot of people can't afford to but I read some of the stuff on here and wonder whether people are either living in a fantasy world or don't care whether Welling goes to the wall.
I agree with Andrew... if you want the club to survive your loan (if possible) needs to be long term...
as long as welling can find 30-40 more people to attend each match next season there will be no loss of revenue.... to achieve this welling need to advertise more...
Ask your 2 local league clubs to advertise your matches both Charlton and Millwall have many followers living in the welling area... if they published welling's up coming matches in their match day program, you may well find your extra fans.... someone mentioned that another club do a book of 5 tickets (for any match) each season... welling should do this.. and again advertise it through charlton and millwall as well as local papers, Bexley council magazine and web site. Greenwich council probably do a magazine as well (would be worth asking them as well. most housing associations send out magazine's ask them to advertise welling united.. posters at youth clubs/schools... not just welling.. try hitting all surrounding area's..
Also Supporters Association encourage people to join, charge a membership, offer a monthly newsletter (fixtures/results/comments from players/upcoming activities)
1 Bring in revenue streams via commercial activity 2 Cut the budget 3 Bring in a media partner to cover the club, create awareness and advertise (ILR Station or Regional Newspaper)
If you do 1 and 3 you probably dont need to do 2. If you do 2 immediately then 1 and 3 will allow you to increase the budget again.
IT ISNT ROCKET SCIENCE
Just because we are losing 50 bags a season doesnt mean we will continue to lose 50 bags a season chaps. We can get 4 fig crowds, we can get sponsors, advertisers and reach teh community. NOT as club stands, of course it cant, but if changes are made and we have people moving mountains and creating an awareness and a good vibe and showing WUFC has a new dawn, if we take more bodies on board and have a bit of savvy and direction and organisation.
FCUK ME i sound like Obama. But i am correct here.
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
It all comes down to how much belief you have, based on past evidence, of what is likely to change, and how soon, in the structure and running of the club. I understand the stability argument but the combination of how important the money is to you and your own level of belief will drive how much leverage you feel you require to see that change brought about.
There is nothing to say that an individual cannot renegotiate with the club for a longer pay back period if they like what they are seeing but you have a legally binding agreement to try and get it back at the earliest opportunity if you don't.
It is a fact you have to live with that we have some ground to make up in the faith stakes given past events (or lack of them)...
Andrew - I think it is you living in a fanatasy world. The idea that the fans giving the owners 60k in long term loans will provide some sort of stability is having a laugh. They got us in this mess and I can not see anything about what they are going to do differently to change things.
Unless I am missing something, they will owe the 60k to the fans + the other debts and will still be running at a loss - building up more debt.
At this point - they should have a business plan to present to the supporters who they are asking to give over large sums of money, about they how they are going to manage the budgets and create revenue streams. There is nothing.
They haven't even updated the web site after the meeting on Saturday to say what the plans are.
I think the idea of saying that the loan is for a year will be to put pressure for change and that we can see some genuine developments that can reassure us that our money is being well used. I don't think it means that we will necessarily want it back in 2011 - i am sure it could be extended - but the option is there if we are still in a mess. It will also mean that the owners will need to be more transparent about waht is going on and communicate better with the supporters.
It could also be turned into shares.
-- Edited by chelwing on Monday 6th of December 2010 08:10:42 AM
Any chance of the Eastleigh game being rescheduled for before the 15th? Money from ticket sales and merchandise would come in handy, although it's minor compared to how much we'll get from the Luton game and from loans from the fans.
Crap :( Anyway, i hope the Eastleigh game happens before Christmas Day as a lot of people will want to get Welling related presents. There's a few things I'm after myself.
