I can understand the reason for targeting certain groups to nudge them into coming to PVR, but to say students are poor so they should be targeted seems questionable to me. I'm not saying don't target them but if the main reason is that they have little disposable income then surely that sentiment could be used for those on benefits. Historically, I think Banks targeted students as it was seen that they would get a highly paid job and stick with the same Bank when they did. It's called "Price Discrimination in Economics", you're targeting a market which otherwise wouldn't be contributing to your profits.
Why not target "Captain's of industry?" (I don't mean Alan Sugar ect. but local businesses, from small to large). They generally have more disposable income with which they could high-light to their staff of any offers. Not only that, but they may be swayed into paying for advertising.
If we are looking at a section of society that is poor and down-trodden, why not target married men?
I can safely say that I've never arrived at the turnstile and heard a paying adult say "I refuse to pay 12 quid when students get in for 9" before walking away. I don't see why you're picking on something we are doing correctly (however minor it may be), when there are a million other opportunities that we aren't exploiting. There might be only a small benefit, but there are no drawbacks so I don't see the problem.
There is no problem, there is just a debate going on whereby different people from different walks of life are expressing an opinion. Your suggestion is a very valid one as indeed are any of the others. It doesnt mean that they cant be challenged in a constructive way/manner. One thing that could be said is "why are we having this discussion when it should be held by those that run the club".
And if I had a £1 for every time my wife asked me "am I talking to a brick wall?" I would be a very wealthy man.
I understand that and I've stated my reasons as to why I see no harm in keeping the discounted rate. I just wonder whether Mr JGFC has the same qualms about letting over 60s in at a concessionary rate of £7.
A quick glance on the ticket sections of some other BSS websites reveals they also offer student discounts - if they do it then why shouldn't we? Especially when the majority of them see higher attendances than we do. Some even offer discounts to NHS employees and the Armed Forces - whilst they do fine work in very stressful conditions, if we're going to pick bones in who deserves discounts then I'm sure I could come up with arguments for them paying full price if I so wished.
Again, a very valid point. But, read carefully what I write, as I am usually quite guarded with any of my posts. What have I actually said? What bones have I actually picked?
I understand that and I've stated my reasons as to why I see no harm in keeping the discounted rate. I just wonder whether Mr JGFC has the same qualms about letting over 60s in at a concessionary rate of £7.
A quick glance on the ticket sections of some other BSS websites reveals they also offer student discounts - if they do it then why shouldn't we? Especially when the majority of them see higher attendances than we do. Some even offer discounts to NHS employees and the Armed Forces - whilst they do fine work in very stressful conditions, if we're going to pick bones in who deserves discounts then I'm sure I could come up with arguments for them paying full price if I so wished.
OAPs are more than welcome to come in for £7 or a very cheap season ticket ... I'd also let in Nurses, Soldiers etc in for £7.
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
I understand that and I've stated my reasons as to why I see no harm in keeping the discounted rate. I just wonder whether Mr JGFC has the same qualms about letting over 60s in at a concessionary rate of £7.
A quick glance on the ticket sections of some other BSS websites reveals they also offer student discounts - if they do it then why shouldn't we? Especially when the majority of them see higher attendances than we do. Some even offer discounts to NHS employees and the Armed Forces - whilst they do fine work in very stressful conditions, if we're going to pick bones in who deserves discounts then I'm sure I could come up with arguments for them paying full price if I so wished.
OAPs are more than welcome to come in for £7 or a very cheap season ticket ... I'd also let in Nurses, Soldiers etc in for £7.
Ah, and therein lies your problem with it - your assumptions about students. Might I suggest that many of those Nurses actually had to attend university to gain certain qualifications?
I couldn't care less whether we have brain surgeons or pimps come in through the gate. The priority is to get attendances up and in turn increase revenue so 1) we can progress and invest in the squad and 2) so we don't end up in the same position we found ourselves in 2 years ago.
I was referring to our track-suited friend, rather than your good self Trigger
My dear Ashford Wing
No problem.
In one off my previous lives I used to 'chair' meetings. If ever I wanted to get people to join in and offer an opinion I would invite those who I knew would stir things up (not in a negative way) but by shooting from the hip so to speak. This would create a response and have an effect of getting others to join in. In saying that, if ever I wanted to propose something and didn't want to be challenged, I'd hand pick the attendees.
I've been a student for the past three years and found it shocking that I had to pay the full price like a working adult; especially when many other teams in the league offered a discounted price. I mentioned this a few times and was swiftly shot down as a tax dodging student! Ironically, the price changed this season when my studies were complete. Lucky me! Disposable income is not easy to come by as a student, we are essentially penalised for trying to further our education. I think one of the main demographics missing from a match day in PVR are the 16-21 year olds. Hopefully the reduction in price might help to address this issue, though I don't think it's a well known fact, especially after reading some of the comments in here.
The argument of "there are no universities local" is not necessarily true. For starters, Avery Hill campus of the University of Greenwich is down the road. Not to mention the vast amount of students who commute for their studies to the wide range of institutes within London, and those who return at weekends from places like Canterbury. That's just unis, there is a wide range of colleges and sixth forms too. Plenty of students around to try and attract.
Why do we always target the Borough of Bexley? Charlton are in Greenwich but they target Kent. In fact according to my CAFC supporting mate most of their fans now come from Kent. As I said elsewhere we need to promote the club as the highest placed non league club in Greater London and spread the word into the Royal Borough (and further afield). It would be interesting to see how many of our fans live outside Bexley Borough.
Ah, and therein lies your problem with it - your assumptions about students. Might I suggest that many of those Nurses actually had to attend university to gain certain qualifications?
I couldn't care less whether we have brain surgeons or pimps come in through the gate. The priority is to get attendances up and in turn increase revenue so 1) we can progress and invest in the squad and 2) so we don't end up in the same position we found ourselves in 2 years ago.
Haha and if you think Students will make everything hunky dory you are truly deluded. As i said if we offered Postmen entry for £9 we would make more money if we targeted them as apart from there being more of them that would attend games , they would have disposable income to spend where the students wouldnt.
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
I've been a student for the past three years and found it shocking that I had to pay the full price like a working adult; especially when many other teams in the league offered a discounted price. I mentioned this a few times and was swiftly shot down as a tax dodging student! Ironically, the price changed this season when my studies were complete. Lucky me! Disposable income is not easy to come by as a student, we are essentially penalised for trying to further our education. I think one of the main demographics missing from a match day in PVR are the 16-21 year olds. Hopefully the reduction in price might help to address this issue, though I don't think it's a well known fact, especially after reading some of the comments in here.
The argument of "there are no universities local" is not necessarily true. For starters, Avery Hill campus of the University of Greenwich is down the road. Not to mention the vast amount of students who commute for their studies to the wide range of institutes within London, and those who return at weekends from places like Canterbury. That's just unis, there is a wide range of colleges and sixth forms too. Plenty of students around to try and attract.
If we have been allowing them in for £9, and you say the 16-21 Demographic is lacking numbers at games. Then it isnt working. I am not aware of any football team in non league having a large number of students support them. Are Cambridge City doing a student thing? Are their crowds 2000, should be if Students cheaper will increase revenue.
Could anyone possibly think that attracting Students on cheaper entry is more beneficial than attracting Families and Kids? The Student lovers are being a bit defensive. While the students pay the £9, The family or even Postmen or Astronaughts might even spend some money in the bar or shop or tea bar. Would be interesting to know how many Students come in per game at the reduced rate and if they are just Welling fans anyway who would pay the £12 and indeed did do so last season.
That's not what we're saying - we're saying there is no harm in going for both, its not an either/or scenario. You're using the student rate as a club to beat us with. Yes the family ticket is a good idea - and I'm sure the combined brain power of this forum is capable of thinking up far more good ideas than the club themselves have in recent years, but the student rate is an idea that should stay in my opinion.
I'm not saying it would make things hunky dory, simply stating my opinion that a 12 pound asking price would deter a student, and every body through the turnstiles makes a difference. You must know that its standard practice for clubs to offer a student rate regardless of whether you agree with the reasons
To be fair, with the club still communicating with supporters via Royal Mail, rather than a 21st century solution, we probably do have a hardcore following of posties!
If there are only two student attendees to PVR from all of the local colleges and sixth forms then there is something very seriously wrong. Even if that is the case, however, I'd still argue my case for a student rate simply because it is standard practice. It's not a sin to be young and want to further your education.
By the same token I could say that we would increase revenue by charging £12 to the over 60s . Would I actually do that though? No, because its standard practice.
-- Edited by Ashford Wing on Thursday 7th of February 2013 03:46:56 PM
Students as deserving as OAPS to get in? Now you are deluded.
OAPS get discounts for many reasons, if you dont understand those, then i cant help you.
"Oh you are so unfair, im a student and you let those pensioners in I HATE YOU "
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
If the Kingsmoor community programme is having kids playing in Welling's name on a Sunday morning then they get 5 stars. if its for being a community programme they get the sound effect from Family Fortunes. The community and the schools dont seem to have been attracted. I go back to their website not being updated since July 2012 and now its gone. Have any of you ever seen a tweet from them engaging with the community?
I do know that Paul has been contacting schools recently but with a community programme im not sure its Pauls job to do it, its like having a dog and barking yourself if Paul is doing the Community peoples job. Now we are a community club surely the community people should be a beacon of light for Welling United?
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Alexander O'Neal 1987 "I'm fed up cos all you wanna do is criticize "
It is the schools who should really have been the target during the recent offer period. There must be someone in the support base who can give a little advice regarding practical marketing and communication. Also the matchday experience would be enhanced if the daft steward stopped telling people not to stand near the fence with crowds of 400! Common sense is not that common it seems!
Shouldn't we target everyone? Not just students, OAP's or whoever. The great thing about this is that I never thought about the Armed Forces or the Nurses ect. And I assumed quite wrongly that 'student' meant someone who went to University. So it just goes to show that even I, the fountain of all knowledge can pick things up from those less fortunate than myself.
My point was that the student price is not that well known, as pointed out by some posts earlier on. Maybe if it was we would get more, who knows? The whole point is that the 16-21 seems to be down, maybe the full price was deterring them. Perhaps if they knew it was cheaper they would come. As for the postmen JGFC, you'd be surprised at how many of them actually already go! We have quite a following from the Royal Mail boys I can tell you
Trouble with pricing charlton do it better than us and look at the crowds they get when it's a cheap deal.to the normal price match days.thers a saying catch them when they are young and they wil stay
When you're operating at our relatively low level, no amount of money is "insignificant". Yes we have limited resources, but we needn't drain those - simply giving discounted ticket prices a more prominent position on the website would be a start! Considering many people on the forum didn't know about the student rate, what chance does the rest of the community have.
Now we are getting there Ashford Wing. Use our resources in the IMPORTANT areas.
I'm not opposed to that at all - If I thought it would make a difference and actually be listened to by the club, I'd focus on the important things which we AREN'T doing. Stop outsourcing catering for example and do it in-house which would bring in a much more significant revenue stream than a student/postman/plumber's discount... I'm simply defending a practice which the club DID at last implement (albeit only half-baked) and stating my opinion that it should stay.
I appreciate the effort and intentions of those involved, my doubt is whether the club will actually implement any of the recommendations made. On past evidence they won't be, meaning those not in WUSA will never hear of any developments, or even the proposals that were made.
Anyway, pretend I never brought it up. Its a discussion for another day...
Can I just add that when I said there is a Uni just down the road I was referring to the accommodation for Greenwich university at both Avery Hill and Woolwich. If we were to target them at £6 a shot it may work. When I was a student many years ago - Southampton targetted students when they couldn't fill their ground and a few of us would have beers and go to a game. Mind you it was the days of Kevin Keegan, Alan Ball and Mick Channon so I guess it is hard to compare the two.
-- Edited by chelwing on Thursday 7th of February 2013 03:54:15 PM
My dear Chelwing,
Sorry, but am I reading the above correctly? You were a student in the days of Kevin Keegan, Alan Ball ect?
I couldn't care less whether we have brain surgeons or pimps come in through the gate. The priority is to get attendances up and in turn increase revenue so 1) we can progress and invest in the squad and 2) so we don't end up in the same position we found ourselves in 2 years ago.
Might I politely suggest that they should be the other way round: pay the bills first, invest in the squad and progress second.
At least someone finally suggests getting schools involved, Its not like any others have said it on this forum.
I had heard that our "community" people were always in local schools, it did make me think as you dont see loads of kids at PVR, Maybe Muzza can get his school involved and other schools may follow?
After school clubs have been commandeered by coaching companies in a lot of areas, if some gaps remain we need to exploit that and grow it. A club will get more exposure than a private coaching company and could interest schools. Kudos to Muzza for a post without bo****ks.
Well look look at this..... this could be the start of something beautiful Tom!! I would be happy to sort something out with my school but the club need to sort it out and pull there weight. Whether that be organising an assembly with the players or organising a free coaching session. My school currently have pro kickers that is connected to Dirtford but with a bit of pursausion I could get rid! They are absolute crap anyway!! I've seen them play handball with the kids for the last 3 weeks!! They've not kicked a ball once!!
I comes back to our piss poor community program. Attendances will not grow until this is sorted!! There's a reason why so many of my generation are Charlton fans!! Because every holiday we went on a football course! Wouldn't take a lot to organise something like that and trust me parents pay through the nose of things like that! It's a cash cow!! Looking at 20 quid minimum per kid per day and that's probably cheap!! Obviously requires better market research! I know pro kickers charge 30 quid for 6 weeks for 6 hour sessions!! As I said cash cow and promotes and advertises the club!
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All opinions expressed are my own and are likely to be labelled bollocks!
Kids for a quid is still a good idea, get the kids interested at an early age and they'll want to come back.
My Dad took me to Tottenham in the 50's and I was hooked eventually becoming a season ticket holder for many years. Still a fan of Spurs today.
The one problem I'd have of taking kids today is the language some think fit for a public place. I'm no prude but it hardly encourages people to bring their families along.
I noticed on Tuesday that there was a lot more offensive language in the old stand but maybe that was because it was raining and the usual perpetrators didn't want to get wet.
Sorry, but am I reading the above correctly? You were a student in the days of Kevin Keegan, Alan Ball ect?
Did you go to Uni late in life then my friend?
Indeed Trigger - a mature student I would have been called when I was at Southampton Uni. 48 I seem to remember. Funny how I was called mature in those days but now most people I know describe me as immature.
I've only been coming to Welling since mid way through this season having only moved into the area recently. I live in Charlton and i will say that had I not driven past the ground once I wouldnt have known it was there.
The only promotion for the club I have noticed is once you are already aware of the club eg. website, forum, ground. Had I seen a poster in a pub, or advert anywhere around charlton etc I would have come along earlier in the season.
Agree some tie in with schools would be a good start. I know my nephew who is 6 was going to a football training course at the local school every saturday morning with a coach from charlton but that was stopped as the school couldnt afford it, so maybe there is an opportunity there.
But I am proof that if you can get people into the ground once, they will stick around as the football is of a very good quality and it would be good for the team to be getting the crowds they deserve.
It is a good point Matt - I live near Bromley and there are posters all over the place. We received a letter from the school last week inviting us to Bromley's next match and discounts that were available.
Sadly I fear that despite all the good ideas on here nothing will change. I know that I don't have the time to do more and suspect many are the same.
One thing that I think is still the elephant in the room, is how well the club is run. I know we lost supporters when we nearly went bust. Sure a lot of us rallied around and the club was saved. However there were those that took an alternative route and said that they had had enough. Some may still come but don't put as much money into the club as they used to - I am one I will admit. We are not going to get these people back whilst it appears that apart from a few new boards around the ground, nothing has fundamentally changed. We still do not know what the debt is, despite us having a WUSA member on the board. And that is no criticism of Matt but shows, how despite it all, the supporters are still treated with disrespect.
Good to get that off my chest - just my opinion and others may well disagree.