Wingnut wrote:

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The Good

There were a few positives to come out of Saturday not least the first half hour when we were the better side. There was some good link play between Healy and Vose and a willing runner up front in Harris and all three were involved in a very well worked goal on our part. Harris worked his nuts off all game even when we down to ten even when he was fighting a losing battle. I am not quite sure why Vose and Healy were subbed unless it was an admittance that the game was lost and we were saving them for another day?? I am not the biggest fan of Henly to be honest but credit where credit is due the bloke made some very good saves on Saturday. I also thought that Corne and, dare I say it, KSA also made a positive contribution when they came on. I also thought Duguid did ok fighting a losing battle in midfield.

The Bad

I am still convinced that Fyfield is probably the best defender at the club and that his best position is centre half. I understand the manager wants to play him at left back but we had our best results/performances this season with a central defensive pairing of Fyfield and Fagan and I still think they are the best option.

What have Corne and Fagan done to not warrant a place in the starting XI?? Corne was arguably our best player in December for me and Fagan is a class act playing either in or just in front of the back four as he did in the BT game at Kiddy. Still this problem is easily solved - get them to bring their passports to the next training session, doctor the dates to show they were both born in 1980 and, hey presto, they will be back in the team in no time.....

After a month of training can we not find one player to take a decent f******* set piece?? Never mind missing the first man, some of the corners barely reached the first man?! And we finally stick a half decent corner in through Carmichael and yet at the next one he is back on the half way line......Jesus wept!

The Ugly

I expect there has been a lot of discussion about of our "captain" and here is my two penneth. I should say that I have only seen still photos and not watched the video yet from the weekend. However his tackling style is all wrong and he and the club must surely realise by now that he is a marked man and referees are all too well aware of him. I would also say that I saw plenty of lunges from him in the first 20 minutes or Saturday that could have got man, ball or possibly both and ended up with neither. We were well in that game at 1-1 and arguably the better side and he killed all hopes of three points with one very ill advised "tackle." And if the Chester "tackle" was worse why was our player not writhing around in agony and his teammates rushing in from all angles to harass the referee....?!?! Three red cards in the space of two and a half months can't just be down to bad luck. And going back for a "chat" with the referee at D******* AFTER the red card was issued is just brainless. I reckon that will be 13 games missed through suspension by the time this latest ban is over and that is just unacceptable. I thought the captaincy might calm him down and give him some responsibility whereas it seems to have had completely the opposite effect?!

In summary when we lost our management team and two leading scorers the team was in need of some cosmetic surgery, particularly in the forward positions, to keep us as a lower half but very competitive Conference National outfit. What we have got is a botched attempt at major surgery which, on current form, has us as the worst team in the division.

 

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I agree with the first part of your comments on Jake. Chester had equalised a minute or so before and we needed calm heads at that time and perhaps have to considered the wisdom of lunging for a tackle towards one side of the centre of the pitch, albeit in front of a ref who clearly wasn't going to take the conditions and the pitch into account. Chester got the rub of the green on the key decisions largely down to the reaction of their players and fans. What we as fans generated in terms of numbers and atmosphere in the Conference South just won't cut it for now at least on a very wet January Saturday at Conference National level against a well supported ex-league side.

Many time this weekend and in the past comments have been made regarding numbers and atmosphere at PVR as well as getting in the face of referees. They are all correct statements but the first two will not happen overnight, if at all. Must we keep beating that same drum whilst nothing is being done about it, or if something is, its having little to no effect.

I mentioned on another thread that the attendance, according to BBC, was 619. This is either a lie or a disgrace, given Chester bought at least 150.

We must improve on and off the pitch. Jody has been very positive and honest with his comments and in my view talks a lot of sense. This has been witnessed at his interview I am told, the Meet the Manager night, and in the half dozen or so WingsTV interviews I have watched. If he conducts himself and gets his message across to his players like that, and they are good enough and want it enough, that should come good over time. We can't have bad luck every match, its impossible. But it must happen quickly given recent results.

Off the pitch remains a question mark though.

JgFc wrote:

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Hang on..

WEVE BEEN FINED TWICE this season for crowding the ref,

The problem is the other clubs dont get done for it PMFSL.

Jake got a misconduct charge for not leaving Pitch at Dartford when sent off and an extra game ban. YET... One of Dirtford subbed played raced off bench, out of tecnical area , stepped on pitch and POKED the 4th official in the chest and shouted at him to go and get the ref to send off Bush... The 4th official went on the pitch and told the ref to send off Bush which he did, I was told after the ref did not see anything of anything Bush is supposed to have done.

How the beep can Jake get a misconduct charge when an oppo player in same game manhandles an official which not only he gets away with but gets us a red card?

When Jake did the tackle on Saturday their 16 is in the refs face shouting and throwing his hands around, 2 other Chester players run to ref... Will they get done? will they beep...

Refs AND assessors need to be accountable. Weve had DVDs of us requested by FA from other clubs and weve been fined and banned etc, We had Bush done by TV... Yet we all see stuff like the Halifax game and the player crowding from Chester and nothing is done there, no DVDs requested there or fines or bans for them?

 

Yes Jake could modify himself a little or just try and think is this wise as they will screw me, but lets remember none of his reds were worthy of a red and we have been treated differently to other clubs and make no mistake i can back that up with evidence and lots of it.

-- Edited by JgFc on Monday 2nd of February 2015 03:07:04 PM

-- Edited by JgFc on Monday 2nd of February 2015 03:10:41 PM

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 I was not aware of us getting fined for that offence - which games was that?? Surely clubs would be fined left, right and centre in the Conference for trying to influence the officials??

I remember the D******* game and we all remarked about their bench jumping all over the fourth official (as they did at PVR to get Joe Healy sent off a few seasons ago) Bottom line is it worked and they didn't get any comeuppance from it....

I see we have now appealed the red card (presumably with video evidence)

Can't help thinking we would have more of a chance it was any other name than J.Gallagher on the crimesheet.... 

 

Southport was one i think, i cant remember the other. I agree we cannot blame the refs etc all the time, we do however have lots of instances. Remember these?

1-0 up at Wrexham, Nouble gets 2 yellows, neither were even fouls, same Wrexham player got him sent off, we lost to 2 late goals.
We've had players sent off for stamps the ref never saw (Bush Dartford), Fagan gets stamped on at Park end... nothing, wheres the retrospective ban for the clear stamp? Only applies to us?
Bush at Kidderminster, fine.. what about the assault in the corner flag vs Halifax PMSL that not a lunge or wreckless or dangerous?
We got done and fined for crowding the ref at Southport and i think Bristol, How many teams have we seen do it to us, yet we get done when FA ask Southport and Bristol for the DVDs? They have NOT ONCE asked us for DVDs on Oppo from any home games and we have most certainly never sent any in to get sides in trouble off our own back, We also got done off the DVD from Dartford for Jake's not leaving the pitch, strange how their sub never got done for manhandling the 4th official?
The Chester tackle first half two footed off ground got ball, we were 1-0 up, if they go down to 10 we win, Jake gets sent off when both feet on ground and won ball at 1-1?

Jakes red at Bristol Rovers was by same ref who sent off Turner and Day at Southport a couple of weeks previously, it wasnt even a yellow... Also the ref called Jake across AFTER he sent him off to explain why, yet i think we got done for complaining about the red card on the pitch.

Too many times this season we have been treated differently from other teams, which has result in games being turned on their head and us losing points all over the place, we have also been done off TV and DVD when weve been away yet no DVDs have been requested on opp at home games.

There are bound to be a hell of a lot more of instances and these are just a few. So yes, sometimes we do not help ourselves, but how would you feel as a player if youve been two footed or elbowed etc and nothing happens then later in the game you get sent off and the game changes. Its happening time after time.

I am convinced refs talk to each other and i am convinced there are a few with an agenda and a little clique of them that will destroy us given an opportunity, I heard (2nd hand) that Saturdays ref said to someone pre match he should have sent off Jake in a game earlier in the season... make of that what you will that he sends off Jake for a great tackle yet lets them do a two footed lunge off the floor and says play on LOL.

If we go away and a big crowd get on a refs back they cave in, but even at home like Saturday, their fans go mad and Jake gets sent off. Refs find it easy to referee us very harshly and somehow they do not see it when other sides do the same or worse. Time to get on their backs and make it harder for them to referee weakly vs us.

 

Look for a forum called Rate The Ref on google, all our refs are on there in advance so we can do the homework on how they treat repeatedly us and we can use it as motivation and be ready for it.

 

 

-- Edited by JgFc on Monday 2nd of February 2015 04:02:55 PM

-- Edited by JgFc on Monday 2nd of February 2015 04:09:42 PM

-- Edited by JgFc on Monday 2nd of February 2015 04:11:53 PM

How apt... Look at 2 mins 16 from last seasons game at Macclesfield and also later when Lafayette gets elbowed. All of you tell me this, If Jake does the tackle at 2@16 or any of ours... its a red card, he doesn't even get booked PMSL..  Consistency doesnt apply when refs are concerned with us.

My own theory is refs would rather be marked down by Welling than a BIG ex league club, so we get the rough end of the stick time after time.

 

Can we stop worrying about other clubs, we cannot influence them, and I don't give too hoots about them, other than Dartford, who seem determined to relegate themselves from within because of their obsession with a man that once did well for them and is now past it in Burman. Yes, there have been instances where they have been favoured or advantaged or have played the system better than us, but we play each side twice a year, our games we're in control of 46 games a year. Look in the mirror.

Yes, we are little Welling and other people, teams and the league might want to **** on us. Tough. Whats going to change in the short-term, nothing. We need to stop putting ourselves, individually and collectively, in a position where the league have anything to string us up regarding ... so no more questionable tackles, no more hanging around on the field after a red card which achieves nothing, surround the ref if you want, but don't swear, etc etc. Play well, abide by the laws on and off the field, and they can't just award the other side goals for free, they have to earn them.

We have been unjustly treated I agree, but moaning won't change it.

Refs are not biased, and they don't have a pre-determined decision to send someone off, but human nature dictates if you have refereed Jake, or anyone else, before you might have "an opinion" about them ... and God forbid the ref might like Person A and not like Person B. It happens. Don't put yourself in that position. Play your football, work hard and you'll get what you deserve more often than not. It will never be fair 100%, we just have to accept we're not a big club in this division and we need to raise above it and prove people wrong in a positive way, not invite more problems.

We don't put ourselves in those positions if possible.
We don't harass or moan about other clubs and compare incidents, we look merely at our incidents and our behaviour and make sure its A1.

This is not paranoia its happening all the time in the same games. I really could list 6 7 8 games or more where refs have killed us and shown no consistency and back it up where they have changed games.

NOTHING!!

RED CARD

 

So please stick behind the players, don't make out its all their fault ALL THE TIME.  If we do a sht tackle then send him off but its NOT happening for the other teams when they would be down to ten, then they do it to us... Its hard to take when you can back it up, yet it just keeps happening.

-- Edited by JgFc on Monday 2nd of February 2015 05:30:57 PM

Stop people slagging off our players when they are being victimised and show people whats going on hopefully? Create a siege mentality and a waryness of the way refs are treating us?

We cannot do anything about anything else as it doesnt stop and the treatment we seem to get is non stop too by refs and administrators.

JgFc wrote:

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Kevin when a side does a two footer off the floor and you do a clean tackle and you get sent off, please tell me how we avoid that? Are you saying let the other teams do it but we cannot tackle now? We are seeing teams commit worse fouls than us in same games yet we get done.

What about the two footer by Sinclair of Bristol Rovers on Jamal ... NOTHING, then Jake gets done for a clean tackle minutes later.

THIS is what i am going on about, its happening time after time and its costing us matches...

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 The still photo you have shown from the Chester game do not show a two footed tackle.

Not alter their ways, use it as motivation, be wary of refs and if we get a bad tackle then milk it. Maybe we need to start playing refs.

JgFc wrote:

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The fans can go nuts when we get a bad tackle on us for a start, yep i'd even tell our players to roll around and scream. Anything to try and make it fairer because at the moment we get poor treatment and we have done all season in far too many games for it to be just coincidence.

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So as a fan am I expected to go nuts and swear and abuse the match officials with families with young children around me - great advert for encouraging new supporters I think not - good way to have Ryman league crowds though. 

How many games have you been to this season You Muggy Kent? In the 30+ games I've been to this season I can recall only a few when the refs descision seemed to favour us. Two of Jakes red cards have come in matches where the opposition have committed worse challenges and no card. If we had kicked an opposition player the way Halifax kicked Harry Beautyman we would have had a few sent off. I'm not saying we are angels, all I want is the officials to be consistent. It may turn around in the remaining matches but I ain't holding my breath.

FA uphold Jakes red card.5 match ban