What's that then, 4 points from a possible 36 under Frost?
Who is going to stand up and make themselves accountable for the club's continued embarrassment? If it's not the manager (didn't have time to get his own players in, no budget to work with blah blah blah) then it needs to be the board for waiting so long that he was left with an impossible task.
But, I don't know what encouragement we're meant to take from Frost's reign so far. He talks a much better game that the three amigos, doesn't sugarcoat the facts and tells us what we want to hear. The players he's brought in have been, for the most part, a disappointment. The one exceptional gem he's unearthed is probably just ticking over and putting himself in the shop window until he gets an offer from a club at a higher level next season. I can't see how we'll keep hold of him at Conference South level.
All this despite extra donations from WUSA and still being over budget, to the extent where we need to raise a couple of hundred quid by putting supporters in the dugout. What next? Bid £20 to help Piggy cut the grass?
If we're 100% giving Frost the job next season - which appears to be the case - then yes, I would absolutely love it if they came out and said "It's our fault, not his. We're sticking by him because he hasn't had a fair crack of the whip due to our incompetence"
In the absence of that I will assume they must be extremely unhappy with the results he's produced, and are considering replacements just as they did with his predecessors.
-- Edited by Ashford Wing on Saturday 19th of March 2016 05:13:42 PM
There are people who would Graham. Although I won't hold my breath.
In the meantime it would be good to see the current incumbents not constantly making a dogs dinner of it. You'd have thought 53 years of doing something might mean you'd be quite good at it.
I'm not sure what else the Board, or team management can do now. Clearly they delayed changing the manager far too long, have had to use what limited finance was availiable to buy out players contracts and they now seem to be accepting relegation. Frost has at least got the team playing with some urgency and with a bit of luck going our way the last 3 matches could certainly have yielded a lot more points. I just hope we can keep some of the better players next season but sadly I suspect most of them will be looking for opportunities elsewhere.
First half I thought we played well, pressing hard and there seemed some urgency in our play which was good to see. Gateshead offered no threat and they scored against the run of play. Second half though we were poor, devoid of any idea in the last third where it matters most. I think Bakare got MOM, bit of an odd one. Lokko or Gayle for me who were both solid at the back. 10 points adrift now and teams have games in hand. Relegation virtually confirmed and the club needs sorting out top to bottom in the summer.
First half I thought we played well, pressing hard and there seemed some urgency in our play which was good to see. Gateshead offered no threat and they scored against the run of play. Second half though we were poor, devoid of any idea in the last third where it matters most. I think Bakare got MOM, bit of an odd one. Lokko or Gayle for me who were both solid at the back. 10 points adrift now and teams have games in hand. Relegation virtually confirmed and the club needs sorting out top to bottom in the summer.
So, if you personally made as much money being in the division below as this and there might be less work to do as a result, please explain what motivation YOU would have to change. You can then probably answer how much is likely to get sorted out.
Doesn't mean I like or agree with it but I can certainly understand how the thought processes would work.
We are playing much better stuff under Frosty than under Faz and co, we are still snookered by all the budget being used up and contracts given out to everyone by the last Management team and a change not being made between October and Xmas.
We lack a proven scorer up front, weve lacked that from pre season. Maybe we should have gone for people below the Conference etc who score for fun even Kent League thats where we got Kedwell from after all.
If we twist again with a new manager we will be snookered next season, If Frosty can get (some of) the better players signed up over the next few weeks for next season he is 100% the man for next season as we will have some continuity and the players will be buying into it and trusting him.
Lokko, Williams, Kargbo, Porter, Joey Taylor at left back please he played two games last season there and looked promising in this league, Harry Lee, Wanadio, Mikey as number 1 in goal would be a decent spine in the South who all know each other. I would be tempted to bring back Kiernan from Leatherhead who is older wiser and will score 15 plus easily and also Charlie Penny and play 4-3-3 with pace and fluidity, none of this looking for a big man to lump up to. Juan Joe back as captain?
Weve had more shots in the last 5 or 6 games than we have had all season and weve been competing but making errors at the back and lacking quality in the oppo box.
Hopefully Frosty wants the gig, at least he gives a toss about the club and tries, he had a mountain to climb and given it a good crack, He simply hasnt had 500 a week for a quality striker, Lets see if he can unearth decent players with a clean slate, hes proved he can coach players along with Ash. They never gave up.
The sad thing is this is the worst Conference we have ever been in and if had just one of a Lafayette, Pugh, Emmanuel, Vose or Beautyman still we would have had people to win us games and we would be mid table. To go down this year is a bit of a farce, its not Frostys fault though.
Another big point is even 3rd from bottom could get us a reprieve with all the finances likely to affect one or two basket case clubs so we still have loads to play for and you never know. imagine if we missed out by a point or two in the AGM cup.
Yes you are probably right, it needs the Hobbins to take a good look st themselves and admit they have messed up big time this season with so many contracted players and not changing manager sooner. Frosty deserves a crack next season as he had to inherit a complete mess.
Faz inherited a complete mess but managed to turn the club around last season....4 points is a disgrace ,so much for new managers change fortunes according those that clammered for Faz's head
Faz had a clean slate after Alfreton imploded, a place in this league and put everyone on contracts and signed strikers unproven at this level.
If we had signed Tyrone Marsh or any striker who has scored regularly at this level or even a prolific scorer from below i have no doubt we would be mid table.
Frosty has had his hands tied and had to bring in freebies or take affordable punts on people like Yussuf.
He has signed class players like Gayle and Kargbo with limited money as Faz spent it all and gave the club no leeway to get players out to free up money.
Faz inherited a complete mess but managed to turn the club around last season....4 points is a disgrace ,so much for new managers change fortunes according those that clammered for Faz's head
Forget last season, and focus on this. Are you suggesting Faz's head shouldn't have been called for?
Inheriting a mess or otherwise is up for debate. What is undeniable is that Faz had a complete blank canvass in the summer. He had the choice of his coaching staff and assistants, choice of where to train and when, the highest budget the club had ever given a manager, and a playing squad of zero and free reign to sign anyone he wanted, non-contract or contract, and he failed royally on all levels.
Four points is not very good I agree, but I don't think we'd have been much better off had we not made a change. Making a change and trying something different was absolutely the right thing to do.
Yes you are probably right, it needs the Hobbins to take a good look st themselves and admit they have messed up big time this season with so many contracted players and not changing manager sooner.
Why does Frost deserve next season, exactly? Because he was part of Daisy's backroom staff? We wouldn't have given this amount of slack to anyone else (and didn't in the past).
Inherited a mess, yes. But he knew that. If you had asked the board, the fans, and Frost himself in January whether they thought 4 points from the first 12 games would have been acceptable it would have been a resounding "no".
Right to make a change - yes, albeit far too late Right to give him a free pass to lose every game because he's Dean Frost, somebody we already had an affinity with - no, absolutely not
Phrases like "we're playing with more urgency" are largely subjective if it's not resulting in the scoring of goals. Otherwise I could equally call it a shoot on sight or headless chicken approach.
-- Edited by Ashford Wing on Sunday 20th of March 2016 03:32:21 PM
Let's get to the end of the season before thinking about changing the manager. We may well be in the bottom 4, but there may only be 3 actually going down if financial problems persist elsewhere. So we need to unite behind what we have and do the best we can, when we know where we'll be next season, what budget there will be, then is the time to look at the management and the team.
The same as every season until the Hobbins leave - not enough
then is the time to look at the management and the team.
No it isn't. Wait till the summer and you're in danger of having a repeat performance of this year, where you stick by a guy with no experience and poor results on the pitch for too long, then get rid of him mid-season and the new manager blames him for all the problems he's inherited. The fact is we didn't advertise the job so don't know who we could have attracted, so based on 4 points in 36 games I would already be sounding people out now. Start interviewing now, and there's no reason Frost can't re-apply, but where's the evidence that he's "the right man"?
The players who are clearly good enough - the likes of Lokko, Kargbo etc should have contracts sitting in front of them already. Whether it's Frost or a new manager they would have to be blind not to see their quality. Instead we'll wait till summer when they have a million other options available, miss out, and instead pay £400 per week to the Ricky Wellards and KSAs of the world.
I'm wondering whether the board are just pre-empting the absolute dog's dinner they would make of another recruitment process and think it would be easier to stick with things as they are. Better the devil you know. B****cks.
Will you apply if the job becomes available Ashford Wing?
As I'm not a former member of the backroom staff I don't think I'll bother. It would require me actually hearing about the vacancy and then having to go through a recruitment process. I imagine that's all too much trouble. It was before.
-- Edited by Ashford Wing on Sunday 20th of March 2016 05:45:20 PM
We are playing much better stuff under Frosty than under Faz and co, we are still snookered by all the budget being used up and contracts given out to everyone by the last Management team and a change not being made between October and Xmas.
We lack a proven scorer up front, weve lacked that from pre season. Maybe we should have gone for people below the Conference etc who score for fun even Kent League thats where we got Kedwell from after all.
If we twist again with a new manager we will be snookered next season, If Frosty can get (some of) the better players signed up over the next few weeks for next season he is 100% the man for next season as we will have some continuity and the players will be buying into it and trusting him.
Lokko, Williams, Kargbo, Porter, Joey Taylor at left back please he played two games last season there and looked promising in this league, Harry Lee, Wanadio, Mikey as number 1 in goal would be a decent spine in the South who all know each other. I would be tempted to bring back Kiernan from Leatherhead who is older wiser and will score 15 plus easily and also Charlie Penny andplay 4-3-3with pace and fluidity, none of this looking for a big man to lump up to. Juan Joe back as captain?
Weve had more shots in the last 5 or 6 games than we have had all season and weve been competing but making errors at the back and lacking quality in the oppo box.
Hopefully Frosty wants the gig, at least he gives a toss about the club and tries, he had a mountain to climb and given it a good crack, He simply hasnt had 500 a week for a quality striker, Lets see if he can unearth decent players with a clean slate, hes proved he can coach players along with Ash. They never gave up.
The sad thing is this is the worst Conference we have ever been in and if had just one of a Lafayette, Pugh, Emmanuel, Vose or Beautyman still we would have had people to win us games and we would be mid table. To go down this year is a bit of a farce, its not Frostys fault though.
That's the funniest thing I have read in ages - please don't apply if the managerial post becomes vacant.
There are reasons that KHM and Penny are playing two levels down (and KSA three) - the reason being that they are not good enough to play at this level. If someone was scoring 30+ goals in the Ryman league then I agree that they might be worth looking at.
However I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.
To get back to what this thread is actually titled....
I feel that, the Cheltenham game aside, I have been watching the same game at PVR for a few months now....
Start the game on the front foot with some nice build up play - tick.
Don't create any clear cut chances so all shots from distance and lack of final ball and/or targets to hit in the penalty area - tick.
Concede soft goal on the stroke of half time - tick.
Huff and puff our way through the second half (although we did have a slight twist on Saturday by missing an early gilt edged chance to equalise) - tick.
Gradually lose our shape and chase around like headless chickens and watch our keeper make a couple of saves to keep us in it - tick.
Forget how to pass the ball - tick
Play like individuals rather than as a team - tick
For what it's worth I would like to see Frost given a crack next season with a clean slate.
To get back to what this thread is actually titled....
I feel that, the Cheltenham game aside, I have been watching the same game at PVR for a few months now....
Start the game on the front foot with some nice build up play - tick.
Don't create any clear cut chances so all shots from distance and lack of final ball and/or targets to hit in the penalty area - tick.
Concede soft goal on the stroke of half time - tick.
Huff and puff our way through the second half (although we did have a slight twist on Saturday by missing an early gilt edged chance to equalise) - tick.
Gradually lose our shape and chase around like headless chickens and watch our keeper make a couple of saves to keep us in it - tick.
Forget how to pass the ball - tick
Play like individuals rather than as a team - tick
For what it's worth I would like to see Frost given a crack next season with a clean slate.
I think it is just a case of everyone wanting the season over now. We are going down and the reality of it finally hit me on Saturday - depressing!
Yes, just waiting for the end of the pain, i don't go to matches any more expecting anything other than a lot of running about and giving away one or more soft goals. But the beer and crack means I'll be there for Woking.
For what it's worth I'd keep Frost & Co. for next season, but with a clear understanding that the tenure was performance related, with a serious review in October.
That's the funniest thing I have read in ages - please don't apply if the managerial post becomes vacant.
There are reasons that KHM and Penny are playing two levels down (and KSA three) - the reason being that they are not good enough to play at this level. If someone was scoring 30+ goals in the Ryman league then I agree that they might be worth looking at.
However I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.
We will not be recruiting National League standard players next season or paying 500 a week for players. KHM has bagged 15 goals this season and Penny has scored plenty recently, both will not cost the earth, are young and score at a lower level. We probably will not get decent loans from league sides, so we either pay 400-600 a week for Journeymen who might score a few in the South but who have been around for years and dont really give a toss if they score 15 or 20 as they get paid anyway, or we get young players who score goals albeit at a lower level who will be affordable. Much better than getting in U21s on loan who have never needed to win games as all theyve done is develop and play pass pass stuff.
KHM and Penny look a decent bet, they score albeit in the Ryman and would cost less than a journeyman whos been knocking around at Chelmsford, Dartford and Margate.
Wanadio, Penny, KHM plus Porter would not seem a bad 4 forwards for the South. They arent big but neither were Pugh and Cumbers.
That's the funniest thing I have read in ages - please don't apply if the managerial post becomes vacant.
There are reasons that KHM and Penny are playing two levels down (and KSA three) - the reason being that they are not good enough to play at this level. If someone was scoring 30+ goals in the Ryman league then I agree that they might be worth looking at.
However I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.
We will not be recruiting National League standard players next season or paying 500 a week for players. KHM has bagged 15 goals this season and Penny has scored plenty recently, both will not cost the earth, are young and score at a lower level. We probably will not get decent loans from league sides, so we either pay 400-600 a week for Journeymen who might score a few in the South but who have been around for years and dont really give a toss if they score 15 or 20 as they get paid anyway, or we get young players who score goals albeit at a lower level who will be affordable. Much better than getting in U21s on loan who have never needed to win games as all theyve done is develop and play pass pass stuff.
KHM and Penny look a decent bet, they score albeit in the Ryman and would cost less than a journeyman whos been knocking around at Chelmsford, Dartford and Margate.
Wanadio, Penny, KHM plus Porter would not seem a bad 4 forwards for the South. They arent big but neither were Pugh and Cumbers.
Sorry but that foursome couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. We are being bullied week in week out and the same will happen in National South unless things change. Remember the days of Franks, Parkinson, Lafayette, Martin, Achempong etc...etc...we would never get outmuscled in a game.
We need a mobile, physical presence up front (see Wrexham, Altrincham, Aldershot in recent weeks and pretty much most clubs that we have encountered this season) Doesn't have to be the greatest footballer in the world but at least keep defenders occupied (unlike the two statues that we had on contract at the start of this season)
Up until the return of Lokko and the recent arrival of Kargbo, this has to be the smallest and weakest Welling team that I can remember in many a year - not only physically weak but mentally weak as well. I know we scored two from corners at Southport the other week but, in general, we don't look any sort of threat at set plays and so many goals are scored from there at all levels of football.
