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Just seen this on BBC News

 

  • Posted at 15:1215:12

    BreakingUp to 4,000 fans to be allowed at outdoor sports events in England

    A maximum of 4,000 fans are to be allowed at outdoor events in the lowest-risk areas when the national lockdown in England ends on 2 December, BBC Sport understands.

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson is expected to make an announcement this afternoon on the return of crowds.

    There will be no crowds allowed at sport in the highest-risk areas under the new Covid-19 restrictions for England from 2 December.

    Following our breaking news story here.

     

    Suppose it depends on what risk area he puts us in



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Believe it will be based on the lockdown tier system according to National Forum.



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As long as Welling is not in Tier 3...South East looks not good right now

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Apparently its 4K or 50% of capacity (whichever is lower) in Tier 1 and 2k or 50% of capacity (whichever is lower) in Tier 2. Unfortunately its more likely this part of London will be Tier 3 as it stands.



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Isn't this Grassroots (as before) rather than Elite (Welling!)?



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Either way, we'll be back soon!

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Wings1963 wrote:

Either way, we'll be back soon!


 Apparently not, ban still in place steps 3-6. Ridiculous 



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Just need a bit of GOOD NEWS for a change 

 



-- Edited by Patsy on Monday 23rd of November 2020 09:32:51 PM

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My understanding, and I am happy to be corrected, is that the 4000/2000/0 (or 50% if lower) for Tiers 1/2/3 will cover both Elite and Grassroots football.

If that is the case then we will be able to go back to PVR as long as we don't get placed in Tier 3.  It might mean that the Dulwich, Dartford and Maidstone matches might have to be all ticket.

Away from PVR it would depend on the Tier, with again Dulwich, Dartford and possibly Ebbsfleet being subject to restrictions.

Having 4 matches forcibly postponed will be more demanding on the players, but might possibly give us more opportunity to watch the re-arranged matches blankstare



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So as with most of the rules related to the virus control, its confusing. 



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Just another positive thought, as we all need some at the moment.

Assuming Charlton, Millwall, Palace and Gillingham will all be restricted to 4000 at the most then there is the possibility that some of their fans might come to watch a game at PVR.  So, similar to what occurred at the Billericay game last season (when the EFL games were called off), we could see an increase in attendances.



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It is not confusing really, outdoor sports (no level restrictions) can have spectators dependant on Tier of relevant area, as mention by Peter Mason. It's been pretty simple all along - stay away from others, stop the spread, but the lower level stuff on meals, meeting households etc.. could be explained better. I know people saying 'why can't I go to football and have a beer inside with 7 mate's, why 6 and not more'. Maybe to stop the spread of the virus?? If Bexley is in Tier 2, the next questions will be can I have a beer at the match as I'm also having a half pounder and chips, which is a 'substantial meal'. Don't know the answer to that one.

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Looking forward to finally to be able to go football again!

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Peter Mason wrote:

My understanding, and I am happy to be corrected, is that the 4000/2000/0 (or 50% if lower) for Tiers 1/2/3 will cover both Elite and Grassroots football.

If that is the case then we will be able to go back to PVR as long as we don't get placed in Tier 3.  It might mean that the Dulwich, Dartford and Maidstone matches might have to be all ticket.

Away from PVR it would depend on the Tier, with again Dulwich, Dartford and possibly Ebbsfleet being subject to restrictions.

Having 4 matches forcibly postponed will be more demanding on the players, but might possibly give us more opportunity to watch the re-arranged matches blankstare


 Sooo.... has it beem considered how this affects the overall finances of the league?

Currently we are all on Government subsistence.How does it work if some clubs are in tier 3 and can't have crowds and others in other tiers can. You can wind up where Tier 3 clubs are potless and others are surviving on crowds or Tier 3s are on just the grant and others both sources of income. If that were to be the case it does bring an entirely arbitrary external influence to proceedings which will further diminish any competition integrity that may remain.



-- Edited by stafford on Thursday 26th of November 2020 10:12:14 AM

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stafford wrote:
Peter Mason wrote:

My understanding, and I am happy to be corrected, is that the 4000/2000/0 (or 50% if lower) for Tiers 1/2/3 will cover both Elite and Grassroots football.

If that is the case then we will be able to go back to PVR as long as we don't get placed in Tier 3.  It might mean that the Dulwich, Dartford and Maidstone matches might have to be all ticket.

Away from PVR it would depend on the Tier, with again Dulwich, Dartford and possibly Ebbsfleet being subject to restrictions.

Having 4 matches forcibly postponed will be more demanding on the players, but might possibly give us more opportunity to watch the re-arranged matches blankstare


 Sooo.... has it beem considered how this affects the overall finances of the league?

Currently we are all on Government subsistence.How does it work if some clubs are in tier 3 and can't have crowds and others in other tiers can. You can wind up where Tier 3 clubs are potless and others are surviving on crowds or Tier 3s are on just the grant and others both sources of income. If that were to be the case it does bring an entirely arbitrary external influence to proceedings which will further diminish any competition integrity that may remain.



-- Edited by stafford on Thursday 26th of November 2020 10:12:14 AM


 

Could be a bit of mess with Team A in tier 2 getting the grant+supporter income and Team B getting grant+zero income. I doubt the grant being National Lottery money would have to repaid in any way? Not sure if the additional crowds would influence the league that much if it were only for several weeks but if went on longer it would. Imagine if Dartford could have fans and Dorking not - King would have a right old spend up with extra income!



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London is officially Tier 2, so crowds under 2k or 50% capacity. Presumably this means realtively normal sized crowds at PVR then?

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trev83 wrote:

London is officially Tier 2, so crowds under 2k or 50% capacity. Presumably this means realtively normal sized crowds at PVR then?


 It would be fantastic if we got crowds of even 50% of capacity but I believe it will be based on 50% of our covid capacity as approved by Bexley so agree something like a normal crowd only spread out much more. I just hope London stays in tier 2 long enough for us to see some home games at the ground.



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We should get "full houses" up to our maximum, important we try and get Charlton and League fans in where they cant go and watch their teams

 

Meanwhile in Dartford 

 

 



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There now seems no reason why we can't host home games with possibly beer being served outside alongside catering points?

But most importantly is getting a game on. Beer can be had before & after the match in the right surroundings obeying by the correct protocol.



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I take it streaming will carry on as away fans and exiles will still pay to watch? If this carries on into xmas it should bring in good revenue.

We could be getting gate money, government money and streaming money. Every cloud and all that. A good chance to maximise revenue. If they dont think they can get enough paying for streams then its a great opportunity to get it sponsored and go free to air so it could work what ever way they go. I would stick to charging.

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So potentially the Chippenham game on the 12th Dec could have fans in then?

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It certainly should as we dont know how tickets will be allocated as yet



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trev83 wrote:

So potentially the Chippenham game on the 12th Dec could have fans in then?


 Good, I can't wait.



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This is the best news I have had this
week. Brilliant news and I can't wait either.

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Just the thought of fans coming back has cheered me up no end..I think the feel good factor will be fantastic. I know drinks have to be purchased with food but im sure we will all enjoy a burger with a few pints

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Anyone for reviving the old London/Kent debate!



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Spitey wrote:

Anyone for reviving the old London/Kent debate!


 It's in full swing on Twitter!!



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I might have misunderstood something I read elsewhere but can residents of tier 3 actually travel into tier 2 to watch the game. This would certainly affect a lot of our supporters if it is not allowed. Before anyone says no one would find out remember tracking details have to be provided.



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Its all crap. Whitty actually said today, Do not hug your family at Christmas, its not illegal you can do if you want to but don't do it. AFAIAA, The guidelines say you shouldn't travel into different zones unless its essential etc.

Clubs should take a stance and ban anyone from tier 3 so if they turn up on the tracking they can be packed off home.

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Dartford can rent PVR for £20,000 a home game and have fans if they want....!!! :)

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They could but the bill for extra anti D**tford disinfectant would outweigh the benefits

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TheGhostOfJodyBrown wrote:

Its all crap. Whitty actually said today, Do not hug your family at Christmas, its not illegal you can do if you want to but don't do it. AFAIAA, The guidelines say you shouldn't travel into different zones unless its essential etc.

Clubs should take a stance and ban anyone from tier 3 so if they turn up on the tracking they can be packed off home.


 

Thanks for that. When it all becomes too much hassle, it is probably the time to be considering other ways of using my Saturdays....



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Here we go then, So the family that says stuff this i'm travelling to be with my family over xmas from one end of the country to the other, not giving a toss if they pass on the virus. That's why lockdown has been a farce, far too many people think laws and guidelines and advice don't apply to them. We have all seen our neighbours, friends, family, schoolkids do what they like.

Too many people are selfish, thick or don't give a toss and just do what they like, What kind of person will ignore guidelines and laws to go to a football match risking passing on a virus that has locked down millions? The kind of person who doesn't give a toss about anyone else. Not only sticking fingers up at people who havent worked throught lockdown but potentially passing on a virus that kills people just so they can do what they like, whether thats football, socialising, partys or whatever.

I'm sure many people who have locked down compliantly so far will be straight on the phones when they see people flouting laws and rules over xmas and the new year. They are being taken the piss out of by the selfish and brainless.

There is absolutely no justification for people to go to partys , football or meet ups to get round a lockdown, especially when people haven't even been able to go to funerals etc. I am amazed people are even considering bunking in at Tier 2 clubs, mind you we have had loads of our fans go to away games bending rules or got into PVR to watch a game without a thought for people in Lockdown because they want to or feel like it.

Crack on.





-- Edited by TheGhostOfJodyBrown on Saturday 28th of November 2020 05:19:09 PM

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TheGhostOfJodyBrown wrote:

Here we go then, So the family that says stuff this i'm travelling to be with my family over xmas from one end of the country to the other, not giving a toss if they pass on the virus. That's why lockdown has been a farce, far too many people think laws and guidelines and advice don't apply to them. We have all seen our neighbours, friends, family, schoolkids do what they like.

Too many people are selfish, thick or don't give a toss and just do what they like, What kind of person will ignore guidelines and laws to go to a football match risking passing on a virus that has locked down millions? The kind of person who doesn't give a toss about anyone else. Not only sticking fingers up at people who havent worked throught lockdown but potentially passing on a virus that kills people just so they can do what they like, whether thats football, socialising, partys or whatever.

I'm sure many people who have locked down compliantly so far will be straight on the phones when they see people flouting laws and rules over xmas and the new year. They are being taken the piss out of by the selfish and brainless.

There is absolutely no justification for people to go to partys , football or meet ups to get round a lockdown, especially when people haven't even been able to go to funerals etc. I am amazed people are even considering bunking in at Tier 2 clubs, mind you we have had loads of our fans go to away games bending rules or got into PVR to watch a game without a thought for people in Lockdown because they want to or feel like it.

Crack on.





-- Edited by TheGhostOfJodyBrown on Saturday 28th of November 2020 05:19:09 PM


 1)  I suspect you have been to a gathering of people in the past when you were feeling unwell but didn't know what you had. In that circumstance, how did you know that you did not have something transmissable with capability of killing someone at that gathering if they were showing reduced immunity to it? Other things are just as deadly as Covid to the wrong person. Did you ask the Government for advice on that occasion?

2)  At the outset of restrictions in March, not much was known as to the virus and the efficacy of counter measures. Knowledge is now better and more widespread. A single source of knowledge is used to frame the restrictions using statistics that have been out of date at their time of presentation or a postulation of what might happen in certain circumstances but wasn't to be used as an example of what would happen (if I remember the twaddle surrounding that graph correctly). No other knowlege source is permitted or acknowledged despite that it might match what is actually going on. Or did that not happen?

3) Apparently it is quite alright for someone who has had to work in a public facing job for the duration to be exposed to the risk and subsidise other risk averse individuals into the bargain if diktat says they should? What say do they get in the risk they are exposed to or whether, in fact, it reasonable that others should be required to manage the same level of risk?

4) Presumably, by your logic, if the Government says lockdowns and the tier system should continue in perpetuity regardless of any other evidence, there will never come a point where you would question the wisdom of it? Otherwise you would have to admit you are thick, selfish or didn't give a toss, by the merit of your argument above.

5) Human nature is what it has been and will always be. The only way you get total compliance with anything is absolute enforcement and that normally requires inordinate resources. You are selfish if you don't comply? Some of the biggest leaps forward and biggest disasters in history have been made by people who were self centred and didn't comply. It is why you teach people to evaluate risk themselves so you get more of the former and less of the latter because, if you could stop them doing it by calling them selfish, you'd still be eating cold roots in a cave. Politics is generally making the probable work not proving that the unlikely doesn't.



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stafford wrote:
TheGhostOfJodyBrown wrote:

Here we go then, So the family that says stuff this i'm travelling to be with my family over xmas from one end of the country to the other, not giving a toss if they pass on the virus. That's why lockdown has been a farce, far too many people think laws and guidelines and advice don't apply to them. We have all seen our neighbours, friends, family, schoolkids do what they like.

Too many people are selfish, thick or don't give a toss and just do what they like, What kind of person will ignore guidelines and laws to go to a football match risking passing on a virus that has locked down millions? The kind of person who doesn't give a toss about anyone else. Not only sticking fingers up at people who havent worked throught lockdown but potentially passing on a virus that kills people just so they can do what they like, whether thats football, socialising, partys or whatever.

I'm sure many people who have locked down compliantly so far will be straight on the phones when they see people flouting laws and rules over xmas and the new year. They are being taken the piss out of by the selfish and brainless.

There is absolutely no justification for people to go to partys , football or meet ups to get round a lockdown, especially when people haven't even been able to go to funerals etc. I am amazed people are even considering bunking in at Tier 2 clubs, mind you we have had loads of our fans go to away games bending rules or got into PVR to watch a game without a thought for people in Lockdown because they want to or feel like it.

Crack on.





-- Edited by TheGhostOfJodyBrown on Saturday 28th of November 2020 05:19:09 PM


 1)  I suspect you have been to a gathering of people in the past when you were feeling unwell but didn't know what you had. In that circumstance, how did you know that you did not have something transmissable with capability of killing someone at that gathering if they were showing reduced immunity to it? Other things are just as deadly as Covid to the wrong person. Did you ask the Government for advice on that occasion?

2)  At the outset of restrictions in March, not much was known as to the virus and the efficacy of counter measures. Knowledge is now better and more widespread. A single source of knowledge is used to frame the restrictions using statistics that have been out of date at their time of presentation or a postulation of what might happen in certain circumstances but wasn't to be used as an example of what would happen (if I remember the twaddle surrounding that graph correctly). No other knowlege source is permitted or acknowledged despite that it might match what is actually going on. Or did that not happen?

3) Apparently it is quite alright for someone who has had to work in a public facing job for the duration to be exposed to the risk and subsidise other risk averse individuals into the bargain if diktat says they should? What say do they get in the risk they are exposed to or whether, in fact, it reasonable that others should be required to manage the same level of risk?

4) Presumably, by your logic, if the Government says lockdowns and the tier system should continue in perpetuity regardless of any other evidence, there will never come a point where you would question the wisdom of it? Otherwise you would have to admit you are thick, selfish or didn't give a toss, by the merit of your argument above.

5) Human nature is what it has been and will always be. The only way you get total compliance with anything is absolute enforcement and that normally requires inordinate resources. You are selfish if you don't comply? Some of the biggest leaps forward and biggest disasters in history have been made by people who were self centred and didn't comply. It is why you teach people to evaluate risk themselves so you get more of the former and less of the latter because, if you could stop them doing it by calling them selfish, you'd still be eating cold roots in a cave. Politics is generally making the probable work not proving that the unlikely doesn't.


 

Ghost makes a very simple point: Don't be a selfish **** and continue to adhere to the rules. The virus has no cure. It is fatal for many of the most precious and vulnerable in our society. Football shouldn't even be on IMO. 



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Speaking to someone who works for the funeral services just up the road from the ground on Thursday. They said that its been a normal year for the number of deaths, backed up by national stats.
What they had seen was a rise in the number of suicides.
They said we need to open things up and get on with live.
Then if you want to hide from a virus with a 0.1 % fatality rate and an average age of death at 82.4, then crack on

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Sue....rubbish!

Another denier.....ask the doctors and nurses....ask the relatives ..plus ask the people that are still suffering from long covid

I guess you will also not take the vaccine

Well I hope you keep away when things start up again and hide in a cupboard

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Since when has a funeral parlour been the knowledge base for medical advice? Opening up in a controlled manner seems like a good idea, but only as long as rules are followed. I want to go back to PVR and watch football, but only if it is safe, not only for myself and my son, but also for others to stop the spread. The conspiracy theory is just plain stupid. If Welling can safely introduce a crowd and get some money flowing through a pre-match meal and beer, food etc... then good. It'll help both Welling Utd and people struggling in lockdown, whilst maintaining COVID rules / safety.



-- Edited by 50p head on Sunday 29th of November 2020 11:02:31 AM

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A funeral parlour that wants to get on with life, brilliant.

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Do we know what opening up means? I'm quite fond of thr horses as well and when I heard that Sandown was opening next Friday it was very tempting. Then you read that you must wear a mask inside and out, no celebrating if you win (not always an issue admittedly) no racecards and you can't just get a beer because of the substantial meal requirement. Throw in social distancing and it's not anywhere near as appealing 



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