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Sidcup Graham wrote:

Interesting reading a lot of this. However from my perspective a lot of this is speculation - it seems one or two seem to have a lot of inside information, none of which has officially been confirmed.


 Well said & I agree, speculation can be very misleading, if people have insider info, it was probably obtained in confidence so shouldnt be on here anyway. I know there is not a wealth of information from the club itself but what there has been, including the change in Manager, gives me confidence that we will rise up the league. 



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Wings1963 wrote:

Thanks Polo for really good points.

Jamison has a point about GF having the chance, and maybe not taking it, but why? What was MG doing in the background? If anything? Just asking. Because all GF has done (if it's true he was meddling), is do what MG has ALWAYS done.

Playing side: Lovell, Lewis and Lewis is actually a formiddable line up. No shortage of real experience at this level. To think Lovell was leading a league one side not too long ago is also bonkers, lucky to get him.

Polo is right, unless there's stability off the pitch, then forget it on it.

The money side of the club has been a right freebie in 2020. The coming 6-10 months are going to be rough for everyone financially, so could ideally do with clarity on ownership/direction. I would personally like to see MG with no ties to the club. After that people like Matt and Paul might be feeling less in the dark for how to really push on.

Jamison if you were the man in charge, how would you set things up?


 Well I'd just do what any normal chairman does, financially back the club and hope I've put the right people like Matt and Paul in key positions in helping that to happen. 

Unbelievably right now I think MG is the right man at this moment and will be all the time Steve Lovell is manager, he's employed a manager who not only is very experienced but one he's known for a long time and can build a working relationship with. MG is more likely to back SL and let him get on with things himself than he would anyone else.  

The concern shown about Fiore stepping down is something I don't completely disagree with but find hard to fully understand. As DOF his job was to find and sign players for the first team, he relied on signing kids and ryman players because what he thinks is they could step up a level or so and then also sell them for a profit a later date. That's his MO hence he runs a academy. 

What thats done is taken us to the bottom of the league with a situation of Men vs Boys every time they step onto the pitch, if he hadn't stepped down or been removed that would of carried on with a manager who has a MO for exactly the same thing.

I see no reason why the club and academy can't still work together, it states he's still in charge of the academy so why the major concern?  



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OldOak2 wrote:
Sidcup Graham wrote:

Interesting reading a lot of this. However from my perspective a lot of this is speculation - it seems one or two seem to have a lot of inside information, none of which has officially been confirmed.


 Well said & I agree, speculation can be very misleading, if people have insider info, it was probably obtained in confidence so shouldnt be on here anyway. I know there is not a wealth of information from the club itself but what there has been, including the change in Manager, gives me confidence that we will rise up the league. 


 Take it as you wish but i wouldn't waste my time with speculation. Is stating that fiore has been running the club was DOF and wasn't good enough speculation? That the players he signed are not good enough speculation? That MG has done the right thing speculation? 

I offered the open question.

Given what we have seen this season and the position we're in, is Fiore the right person to take control of the club from MG and take us forward? As has been planned for a long time.

Its a genuine open question to think about and a important one for the future of the club. Yet instead people want to dismiss it, and is a underlying problem with this club that nobody wants to give a opinion until its too late.

Too many to quick to dismiss others without offering their own opinion on way things are run. 



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Jamison wrote:

The concern shown about Fiore stepping down is something I don't completely disagree with but find hard to fully understand. As DOF his job was to find and sign players for the first team, he relied on signing kids and ryman players because what he thinks is they could step up a level or so and then also sell them for a profit a later date. That's his MO hence he runs a academy. 



 

An MO that can work in previous times. When everyone above is likely tightening budgets and trimming squads better players will be available coming down the pyramid so the ones you are trying to promote up it have to be really good to go against that tide. I'd suggest you are going to produce less of them than the number of good players the model previously relied on



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stafford wrote:
Jamison wrote:

The concern shown about Fiore stepping down is something I don't completely disagree with but find hard to fully understand. As DOF his job was to find and sign players for the first team, he relied on signing kids and ryman players because what he thinks is they could step up a level or so and then also sell them for a profit a later date. That's his MO hence he runs a academy. 



 

An MO that can work in previous times. When everyone above is likely tightening budgets and trimming squads better players will be available coming down the pyramid so the ones you are trying to promote up it have to be really good to go against that tide. I'd suggest you are going to produce less of them than the number of good players the model previously relied on


 There you go, a opinion and a valid one. Congratulations. 



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OldOak2 wrote:
Sidcup Graham wrote:

Interesting reading a lot of this. However from my perspective a lot of this is speculation - it seems one or two seem to have a lot of inside information, none of which has officially been confirmed.


 Well said & I agree, speculation can be very misleading, if people have insider info, it was probably obtained in confidence so shouldnt be on here anyway. I know there is not a wealth of information from the club itself but what there has been, including the change in Manager, gives me confidence that we will rise up the league. 


As per Polo above Im not going to get in to an argument and I would agree to a degree speculation isnt helpful, but then if information isnt forthcoming people will speculate, not just with football, but everything, and this is a fans forum for debate and communication, and if no one voiced an opinion or comment, then itd be a pretty pointless place to be. 

People will always get inside info as people talk. Likewise, if it were said in confidence, I would imagine that confidence would be eroded somewhat if the parties left the club - be it player, manager, coach, Director of Football, Chairman, or anyone else, especially if leaving against their will or after feeling they had been treated less than fairly. 

Speculation should/could be lesser for there reasons.

1 - We the fans have a voice on the board, so big issues like changes of ownership, management and Directors of Football would surely be discussed in the presence, or with the knowledge of, someone who could then spread that knowledge and kill speculation and provide knowledge and fact. Of course they cant sing like a canary, neither would you want them to, but there shouldnt be silence, and anything that can be shared with one, a drinking buddy for example, could and should be shared with all WUSA members (of which I am not), but I am fairly sure is not sadly. 

2 - The owner, chairman, and person making the recent decisions, could come out and say something, killing speculation instantly.

3 - The owner, chairman, and person making the recent decisions, could have delivered on some of the promises of the last five years, making anything they did in point 2 above, more likely to be successful. 

 

On a personal level - said so see Brad go as hes a good bloke, coach and manager, but the table doesnt lie and if someone decided a change was needed, its their right to make that change. There is a right and wrong way to go about it though, and you could argue that it wasnt handled perfectly as otherwise you wouldnt see a new appointment in less than 24 hours, and a walking out of the Director of Football. There has clearly been a bit of a power struggle, and that is not speculation I am afraid, it is basic common sense. 

Garry Fiore moving on is also a shame. He gets things done, something others often do not, and we might be worse off in the short-term as a result, which we cant really afford to be. 

Steve Lovell, is clearly a good, experienced man. If he can run it his way, with a reasonable budget, things should improve, but I fear he wont be able to, as he has previous connections to MG, as do the other management team members come on, and for me that isnt a coincidence. Lets hope this time it works, we cant afford for it not to. 

 

 



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Jamison wrote:
stafford wrote:
Jamison wrote:

The concern shown about Fiore stepping down is something I don't completely disagree with but find hard to fully understand. As DOF his job was to find and sign players for the first team, he relied on signing kids and ryman players because what he thinks is they could step up a level or so and then also sell them for a profit a later date. That's his MO hence he runs a academy. 



 

An MO that can work in previous times. When everyone above is likely tightening budgets and trimming squads better players will be available coming down the pyramid so the ones you are trying to promote up it have to be really good to go against that tide. I'd suggest you are going to produce less of them than the number of good players the model previously relied on


 There you go, a opinion and a valid one. Congratulations. 


 Apparently I have been noted over a period of 20 years for never having an opinion.....



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Seems Jamison is saying GF was no good, but his mates on the board did what they could, and now favour MG. So he's backing that too?

How many times can a guy fool people? Five years of the same "trust me" type statements. All lead to..........well, we're bottom of the league.

What has improved since MG took over?

If he left, completely, tomorrow, what's he left behind?



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Wings1963 wrote:

Seems Jamison is saying GF was no good, but his mates on the board did what they could, and now favour MG. So he's backing that too?

How many times can a guy fool people? Five years of the same "trust me" type statements. All lead to..........well, we're bottom of the league.

What has improved since MG took over?

If he left, completely, tomorrow, what's he left behind?


 Whats your opinion on the present situation then? What would you do? Because all you do is spill the same repeated broken record stuff about MG. 

I don't think he's the man to lead the club anywhere no, but he's made a good decision to get rid of someone who was somehow unbelievably ****ing it up more than he was!!! 

So what else would you suggest? Or are you expecting someone to be plucked out of thin air to by the club?

I don't disagree with what you're saying but instead of keeping on about whats happened why not think about right now and what is best to do.



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Goldberg back not that he ever went away.
Stuck with him unless bought out which is very unlikely IMO.

Lovell new boss.
Lets see how he gets on.




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Jamison wrote:
Wings1963 wrote:

Seems Jamison is saying GF was no good, but his mates on the board did what they could, and now favour MG. So he's backing that too?

How many times can a guy fool people? Five years of the same "trust me" type statements. All lead to..........well, we're bottom of the league.

What has improved since MG took over?

If he left, completely, tomorrow, what's he left behind?


 Whats your opinion on the present situation then? What would you do? Because all you do is spill the same repeated broken record stuff about MG. 

I don't think he's the man to lead the club anywhere no, but he's made a good decision to get rid of someone who was somehow unbelievably ****ing it up more than he was!!! 

So what else would you suggest? Or are you expecting someone to be plucked out of thin air to by the club?

I don't disagree with what you're saying but instead of keeping on about whats happened why not think about right now and what is best to do.


 All the problems stem from MG - five years running the club (into the ground? No pun intended) and what is the legacy if he walked away today. So dealing with today, as you want to do: Where are we?

Grants from the government, gifting a man who is ill equipped to run the club the chance at a free-pass, to further deplete the club, both financially and sporting.

What would I do? I'd expect MG to go public with the club being for sale. 

Instead, he has siphoned off the lease for use at a future time, or for leverage and slid back into day to day control.  

And for GF....what could he really do all the while MG was a shadow in the background?

Are you also criticizing the other guys running the club? Or it was just GF who ****ed it up.

 



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Wings1963 wrote:
Jamison wrote:
Wings1963 wrote:

Seems Jamison is saying GF was no good, but his mates on the board did what they could, and now favour MG. So he's backing that too?

How many times can a guy fool people? Five years of the same "trust me" type statements. All lead to..........well, we're bottom of the league.

What has improved since MG took over?

If he left, completely, tomorrow, what's he left behind?


 Whats your opinion on the present situation then? What would you do? Because all you do is spill the same repeated broken record stuff about MG. 

I don't think he's the man to lead the club anywhere no, but he's made a good decision to get rid of someone who was somehow unbelievably ****ing it up more than he was!!! 

So what else would you suggest? Or are you expecting someone to be plucked out of thin air to by the club?

I don't disagree with what you're saying but instead of keeping on about whats happened why not think about right now and what is best to do.


 All the problems stem from MG - five years running the club (into the ground? No pun intended) and what is the legacy if he walked away today. So dealing with today, as you want to do: Where are we?

Grants from the government, gifting a man who is ill equipped to run the club the chance at a free-pass, to further deplete the club, both financially and sporting.

What would I do? I'd expect MG to go public with the club being for sale. 

Instead, he has siphoned off the lease for use at a future time, or for leverage and slid back into day to day control.  

And for GF....what could he really do all the while MG was a shadow in the background?

Are you also criticizing the other guys running the club? Or it was just GF who ****ed it up.

 


 No, not cos they are mates or whatever else you wanna say,  but because they've done a decent job off the field with the resources they had to it, in ensuring fans could attend games when allowed to and games were sponsored etc. 

Get back to the point, on the field a complete balls up and wasn't going to better whilst someone thinks they can turn the club into a non league Ajax. MG within his right to get rid of fiore as DOF, good decision. Don't know what the future holds, back the new manager and see.



-- Edited by Jamison on Monday 18th of January 2021 03:37:48 PM

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Wings1963 wrote:
 All the problems stem from MG - five years running the club (into the ground? No pun intended) and what is the legacy if he walked away today. So dealing with today, as you want to do: Where are we?

 


Possibly. However let's not have completely rose tinted spectacles on the previous regime lest you are forgetting we had six weeks to find £64k. We have not yet had to do that again (although I have no doubt if it did occur it would be a much greater figure and probably therefore terminal).



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Jamison wrote:
Wings1963 wrote:
Jamison wrote:
Wings1963 wrote:

Seems Jamison is saying GF was no good, but his mates on the board did what they could, and now favour MG. So he's backing that too?

How many times can a guy fool people? Five years of the same "trust me" type statements. All lead to..........well, we're bottom of the league.

What has improved since MG took over?

If he left, completely, tomorrow, what's he left behind?


 Whats your opinion on the present situation then? What would you do? Because all you do is spill the same repeated broken record stuff about MG. 

I don't think he's the man to lead the club anywhere no, but he's made a good decision to get rid of someone who was somehow unbelievably ****ing it up more than he was!!! 

So what else would you suggest? Or are you expecting someone to be plucked out of thin air to by the club?

I don't disagree with what you're saying but instead of keeping on about whats happened why not think about right now and what is best to do.


 All the problems stem from MG - five years running the club (into the ground? No pun intended) and what is the legacy if he walked away today. So dealing with today, as you want to do: Where are we?

Grants from the government, gifting a man who is ill equipped to run the club the chance at a free-pass, to further deplete the club, both financially and sporting.

What would I do? I'd expect MG to go public with the club being for sale. 

Instead, he has siphoned off the lease for use at a future time, or for leverage and slid back into day to day control.  

And for GF....what could he really do all the while MG was a shadow in the background?

Are you also criticizing the other guys running the club? Or it was just GF who ****ed it up.

 


 No, not cos they are mates or whatever else you wanna say,  but because they've done a decent job off the field with the resources they had to it, in ensuring fans could attend games when allowed to and games were sponsored etc. 

Get back to the point, on the field a complete balls up and wasn't going to better whilst someone thinks they can turn the club into a non league Ajax. MG within his right to get rid of fiore as DOF, good decision. Don't know what the future holds, back the new manager and see.



-- Edited by Jamison on Monday 18th of January 2021 03:37:48 PM


 Back the manager - already did that, many posts ago.

From what you are saying it was all GF,  and GF alone. Personally find that hard to believe. How far was MG involved? What were the other directors saying/doing? What is WUSA position? 

As for old regimes, quite right, they didn't sell the club out, they "sold it" to the fans for the debt is how i'd interpret it, and seemed to learn the lesson as far as that saga went.
MG on the other hand repeats the same thing over and over, then has siphoned off the lease to the ground. And siphoned off for sale to god-only-knows-who....used for god-only-knows-what!

And as things stand - which asked you what you think of the current legacy, it is this: no further forward than when he took over, back a few steps (?) AND without control of the lease to the ground. That's a deficit on the legacy? Or ??? You defending that?

Back the new manager. Keep our heads in the sand about the current owner? Keep falling for the same move of "stab in the dark, appoint a fall guy, sack fall guy, dodge blame" - NO THANKS!



-- Edited by Wings1963 on Tuesday 19th of January 2021 02:54:04 AM

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MG has called all the shots apart from the last 6 months so there's only one person to hold account.

Appointing Roots who in turn appointed clowns everywhere. Appointing how many commercial managers all were shyte. Player recruitment was poor he listened to too many jokers .

Firmly believe MG heart in right place but so many yes men surround him hoping to pick him off financially when MG needs to be hands on and call the shots not delegate to people who haven't got a clue.

The clubs foundations are still a joke . Have we got a secretary? An operations manager?

Hopefully MG has time to steer the ship now and not rely on clueless yes men who are complicit In The club being Sunday league off the pitch .

Hopefully on the pitch we can pull away and build for next year so well done to MG for binning Brad and blocking the Cray nonsense.

A few months of stability now until Garry takes back over or buys the club.





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I get inside info from other clubs yet some of our fans have it before others . Probably given directly from directors to keep them sweet and then egos take over and they tell everyone . I have no connection to the club now so if I hear anything I'll ask if it's true or post on here .

I firmly believe MG hasn't been involved since stepping away as he was trying to sort the development . If the council continue to mug him off then im sure he will sell to Garry for 180k ish which it was valued at. However it's probably worth less than that now as Garry owns the Academy doesn't he already?

I can see Garry running the show next season and Russell and Vines managing unless MG states he's back running the show and we have a new direction to take .

It's messy however you look at it.

Was Garry handcuffed in what he could do? He was also DOF and some DOF sign players , I don't agree with that and then you ask was he qualified to run the club and be DOF as he owns academies?

MG put him in charge so whatever way you look at it it was down to MG

Can we please have a General Manager that reports to MG who knows what he's doing. Not someone interfering with a notepad .

We need more updates and interviews from MG too much the same that Matt, Paul and Garry have done over the last few months.

 

We need a roadmap for the next 18 months on and off the pitch.

.



-- Edited by TheGhostOfJodyBrown on Tuesday 19th of January 2021 03:38:25 PM

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stafford wrote:
Jamison wrote:

The concern shown about Fiore stepping down is something I don't completely disagree with but find hard to fully understand. As DOF his job was to find and sign players for the first team, he relied on signing kids and ryman players because what he thinks is they could step up a level or so and then also sell them for a profit a later date. That's his MO hence he runs a academy. 



 

An MO that can work in previous times. When everyone above is likely tightening budgets and trimming squads better players will be available coming down the pyramid so the ones you are trying to promote up it have to be really good to go against that tide. I'd suggest you are going to produce less of them than the number of good players the model previously relied on


 

With the right people in charge . Not an academy manager and someone who's been at shyte Ryman and step 5 clubs for over a decade.



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People saying Garry walking out is a bad thing. I don't get that . He's run the whole shebang since last season and had had money from the government to run the club he hasn't had to find any or put any in.. We are bottom of the table and he planned to bring in Cray Wanderers management? He had a completely free go at running things and I can't see how it could have gone any worse?

If you think Garry going is a bad thing you are literally saying MG has ran it all in the back ground and not holding Garry accountable .

Can't understand that? People might think he's a nice bloke to them however I go on results on and off the pitch and the overall situation and feeling at the club and it wasn't great was it?

Maybe there were some excuses as to why it went badly and we may never know that until he regains control as I'm sure he will do unless we draw a premier league team in the FA Cup next season.

On another note the 3g thing was that Garry's baby or MGs ?

Personally also feel a DOF at this level is ridiculous . We had manager, coaches, head scout, scouting network , an AI camera and full videos of ours and our opponents matches and a DOF and were bottom of the league ... Who's fooling who?

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