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Post Info TOPIC: Cheshunt v Welling United match thread
Danson Mark


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https://www.kentsportsnews.com/cheshunt-v-welling-united-preview-07-02-2023/



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Johnny Hartley


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Cheshunt are my second favourite side in the league after us, as they are such underdogs, but always really do their best. Their home attendances are so low, often around the 300/400 mark so their funds can't be great, so do well on a small budget. They came up from playoffs after finishing 5th, so arguably lucky to get promoted as they weren't out and out winners last season. Transfermarkt stats say they used 44 players in 28 games this season, so amazingly high turnover trying to get a successful team together (in comparison we used 32 players). That will be because they realised their promoted players weren't good enough for this division so they had to rebuild as the season goes on.

My soft spot for them is I felt so sorry for their manager, as earlier in the season they always lost and let in 2 or 3 goals a game, and in the post match interviews the interviewer was kind of showing pity to the manager, in a nice way, as he could see what a difficult job the manager had to do, and the manager was embarrassed and hurt over always losing so badly and being pitied, as it can't be nice always being interviewed by someone who is sorry for you.

Since then they have turned things round, brought in lots of new players, started winning matches, including a 1 - 0 win against Ebbsfleet which was a right result for Cheshunt, got out of the relegation zone, and had such a successful December their manager won the manager of the month award. So like us have made changes and really turned the corner. It has all the hallmarks of a draw, but we looked really good going forward on Saturday, so more of that would tip it our way. Tom Dickens has moved there, and then been loaned out to St Neots, which is a shame, as I wouldn't have minded him being our secret weapon playing in defence against us in this match...!



-- Edited by Johnny Hartley on Tuesday 7th of February 2023 11:57:48 AM

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jh
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Find me a brick wall

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MarkX


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0-1 Azeeze

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MarkX


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1-1 93rd min penalty

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MarkX


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Red card Welling

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MarkX


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Shock horror...it is Payne...again

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Squarevanmanthesecond


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MarkX wrote:

Red card Welling

 Second yellow for payne followed by the red. How many cards now for Payne its beyond a joke.



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bexleylion


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Payne's mouth again apparently, absolutely no need

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Spills


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Squarevanmanthesecond wrote:
MarkX wrote:

Red card Welling

 Second yellow for payne followed by the red. How many cards now for Payne its beyond a joke.

 The manager will probably come out and praise his attitude and battling spirit. The guy is a joke and letting this his team mates and more importantly this football club down. 



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THE BLONDE KID IN A HOODIE


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8 red cards so far this season...9 if you count Feeney... averaging a red every 3 games. Thats diabolical

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Riverstown


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Spills wrote:
Squarevanmanthesecond wrote:
MarkX wrote:

Red card Welling

 Second yellow for payne followed by the red. How many cards now for Payne its beyond a joke.

 The manager will probably come out and praise his attitude and battling spirit. The guy is a joke and letting this his team mates and more importantly this football club down. 

 There is very little point in the fella being at the club. He isnt exactly Harry Kane is he. Im pretty sure he sets out to get yellow or even better red carded each game. Make him sit on the bench until his pointless contract runs out. He is a complete waste of space. Please dont defend him WF. 



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Spills


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He got an incredibly harsh yellow card at Chelmsford last Saturday, but the yellow card he got Saturday against Dartford was just idiotic, it was right in front of me and he just kicked out for the sake of kicking out with out being discrete. As has been said is he frustrated at the level of football he finds himself at now? or does his anger run deeper than that? He must have more cards than goals?! 



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Polo


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We were very poor tonight. Couldn't hold the ball when we got it forward, and had we won, it would have been a robbery.

However, to be a minute away from winning and to concede is a kick in the balls. Couldn't really see the penalty decision from where I was, however the Ref warned Payne and the player he was marking just before the corner came in so if he has fouled the player it's very poor when the Ref would have been watching him.

Payne then mouths off to the referee when we kick off and gets a second Yellow for his trouble. A senior player who has 2 Red cards both for dissent and 13 Yellow cards by the first week of February, not good at all. That I believe is a 2 game ban for his second Red, and once he's back from suspension and gets another 2 Yellows, that's a 3 game ban, meaning he could be suspended for 11 games in total this season as a minimum. The discipline urgently needs looking at.

As frustrating as it is, it's not a loss, and it's a point gained in a game where we didn't play well. Hopefully Saturday at Oxford we play more like we did against Dartford than we did tonight!

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bexleylion


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Don't know if anyone really wants to see this but the stats don't lie.

NATIONAL LEAGUE SOUTH FAIR PLAY TABLE (probably with tonight's cards to be added)

www.transfermarkt.co.uk/national-league-south/fairnesstabelle/wettbewerb/NLS6

The clubs are sorted by points in ascending order. A yellow card counts one point, a yellow-red card three points and a red card five points.

CLUB Y YR R 2Y+R POINTS
1 St Albans City 34 0 0 0 34
2 Taunton Town 40 0 0 0 40
3 Ebbsfleet United 37 2 0 2 43
4 Slough Town 44 0 1 1 49
5 Chippenham 44 0 1 1 49
6 Farnborough 42 1 1 2 50
7 Concord Ranger 48 1 0 1 51
8 Eastbourne Bor 44 1 1 2 52
9 Tonbridge Angel 47 0 1 1 52
10 Weymouth FC 45 3 0 3 54
11 Braintree Town 46 1 1 2 54
12 Bath City 50 0 1 1 55
13 Worthing FC 49 0 2 2 59
14 Hampton & Rich 61 0 0 0 61
15 Hemel Hempst 57 0 1 1 62
16 Cheshunt FC 43 2 3 5 64
17 Oxford City 53 2 1 3 64
18 Dartford FC 61 1 1 2 69
19 Chelmsford City 54 2 2 4 70
20 Dover Athletic 61 2 1 3 72
21 Havant & Water 53 1 4 5 76
22 Hungerford Tn 68 0 2 2 78
23 Dulwich Hamlet 68 0 3 3 83
24 Welling United 73 2 5 7 104

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Riverstown


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Spills wrote:

He got an incredibly harsh yellow card at Chelmsford last Saturday, but the yellow card he got Saturday against Dartford was just idiotic, it was right in front of me and he just kicked out for the sake of kicking out with out being discrete. As has been said is he frustrated at the level of football he finds himself at now? or does his anger run deeper than that? He must have more cards than goals?! 

 Well he is now playing at this level frustrated or not Spills. He hasnt shown me at any stage this season that he is capable of playing any higher. Papadopolis should be brought back and stick Payne out on loan. At least Pap stays on the field. 



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50p head


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Had enough, Payne needs to go. Liability.

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Wallop


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Mentioned it previously, he is frustrated as he isnt the player he was some years ago.
Feeney relates performances and attitudes with top level clubs no numerous occasions.
How about relating managerial nous with regards to sticking with a player of Paynes disciplinary record.
There aint none.
Practice what you preach Feeney, call it a day with Payne.
Stick the two youngsters on either wing with Azzez, and a holding midfielder in the centre circle.
So frustrating.
Pulled the blokes shirt, ref warns him. Does it again, penalty, then gives it all the gob after the penalty.
Should have swapped him at HT with Lisbie seeing as we ended up playing the two young lads on either wing in the end anyway.

The manager needs to take the blame on this one.
For keeping Payne on the pitch.

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Wallop


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And it was bloody cold.



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morph


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"Talent may get you on the pitch, however it is your attitude that keeps you there". 



-- Edited by morph on Tuesday 7th of February 2023 11:07:56 PM

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Johnny Hartley


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I'd said before the match "It has all the hallmarks of a draw", and thought that as they had several draws recently, we are a better side but played this off the back of a really tough match against Dartford, and they are doing well battling away to avoid relegation, and in the circumstances a draw was a result both managers would be happy with.

Wallop's point about Stefan's indiscipline coming from frustration is spot on, I looked online to try to find his disciplinary record, and although it isn't 100% up to date, this site shows his last two seasons are much worse for discipline. www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd It reminds me of Kasim, who went in with nasty late heavy tackles after the opponent passed the ball, also frustrated about not being able to do what he used to do. I remember Warren saying in an interview Stefan reminded him a little of himself as a player, maybe that is why he is given Stefan so much slack, instead of dealing decisively with the disciplinary problem.

It is a shame though, one can't be mathematically sure, but all the red cards and suspensions must have cost us 6 points or more this season, and if we'd got those unnecessarily dropped points we'd be in the play off mix, so ignoring the problem is damaging to the team and its prospects. It's the story of this season - inconsistent.

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jh
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The disciplinary table in this thread makes for grim reading. Miles ahead in the red and yellow card stakes and with last night's latest red for the clear out and out gold medal holder...

By my reckoning Payne will have missed AT LEAST 25% of our league games through suspension by the time the season is over. I think the manager sees similarities between himself and Payne as players but I am sure even he is getting pissed off with it now. We were talking about it on the way home from the game last night and we reckoned that at least five of these cards (including last night) were actually given when the ball was dead and not in play which quite frankly is embarrassing...

The red card may have taken a lot of the focus away from what, all in all, was a very lethargic performance from us last night. Maybe our keeper didn't have many saves to make and the defenders made some good blocks but we were second best most of the night - out run, out fought and out thought. We couldn't string two passes together and, whilst it was gutting to lose two points so late on, it would have been a robbery if we had won the game. Why is it that, with the greatest respect to Cheshunt, we seem capable of holding our own with the likes of Ebbsfleet, Havant and D******* (second time round at least) but we can't seem to produce the same levels against some of the lesser lights at this level..??



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Peter Mason


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Last night we were poor (for whatever reason - tiredness, cold and bumpy pitch, down two players).  As others have pointed out we didn't deserve a win.

Cheshunt used their wing backs very well and were always a threat, with desperate defending often stopping them scoring, including another wonderful save from Miles.

The referee gave a few questionable decisions.  I didn't see the penalty incident at the time, but if it is true that Stefan had been warned then he should have taken note.  In the first half he warned Rob Howard about pinching a few yards on a throw, then penalised him when he took no notice (but didn't penalise Cheshunt when they did the same).

I did some research on the referee and found that he himself is no stranger to colourful language.  In February 2019 he had to answer to the FA as follows:

INCIDENT OF MISCONDUCT (NON FAST TRACK)
Tom Ellsmore, Match Official
Maidenhead United FC U18s v Nottingham Forest FC U18s
FA Youth Cup
11 December 2018

Breach of FA Rule E3 It is alleged that during the second half of the fixture, Mr Ellsmore used abusive and/or insulting words towards a participant.



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Peter Mason


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Let me please add, for balance, the eventual outcome was "Not Proven".



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Wallop


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There was nothing wrong with the officials last night.
Never even considered them, which means (in my book) they done well.

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RonF


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Having listened to Warren's comments, if Stefan Payne sets the tempo for the team, then it is no wonder we are at the bottom of the disciplinary table.

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Johnny Hartley


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Old school football management would see the solution to Stefan's constant suspensions is a fine. But the problem with that is it doesnt really solve the cause of why he has become so indisciplined, so does nothing to stop him carrying on like that. He seems to have recently stopped caring about discipline.

I wonder if it is a psychological issue. Maybe subconsciously Stefan is tired of football, though he may not realise that, so these constant sendings off and suspensions are a very roundabout way of stopping football? If one really loved football one would stop the sendings off so one could play more. I know when he is suspended he watches us play, but maybe the best thing for him is to take a total break from football for a couple of weeks, just to clear his head and get things in perspective. Players can fall out of love with the game, sometimes as a career develops it becomes a lot of effort, rather than the fun thing it starts off with when ones just playing in the playground or with other kids in the park. These days lots more attention is given to care for players, you now hear managers and players talking about "love" and support. Although it is annoying and damaging for the team, I hope some people in the club will be having quiet words with him to work out what is going on and what help can be given to improve things. When he is focussed on his football he is a quality player, so that is the side of him we all want to see.

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