There will be terrace at the park end. I've been told there has to be to fill the National League criteria

Can't help thinking the cycle provisions are a box ticker.  The amount of flats might mean a small percentage of cyclists but to where and to? Bexley council put in cycle lanes behind the broadway.  Never seen one cyclist. Not against it but I just don't see cyclists in our area like I do elsewhere.  

Echoing that, it looks like a housing development with a football pitch tacked on rather than the other way round.

Who will own the freehold to the land?

Cliffewoodswing wrote:

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I would imagine that Bexley Council would continue to own the freehold. I'm sure that if there is a development they would want to get their cut.

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 Perhaps the plan is to buy the freehold from the council? That is the only way anyone can profit from it I'd have thought.  Although when I asked this question it was indicated that they would be looking to get a long term lease with the council. 

I'm surprised they bothered to invite us all down if they haven't even had this agreed with the council.

It's now 8 long years since Goldberg took over from the Hobbins and it doesn't feel like the club has got very far. What the plans did show was how much land the club have, next to a main road connecting Welling High Street and Bexleyheath Broadway that is not used. We could use this ourselves for a new bar/cafe and classrooms without any flats. And if we used modular buildings we wouldn't need to leave PVR.

That is a coincidence Jimmy mentions the sports centre side of things, as it struck me recently the development talk mentioned gym facilities at the newly developed ground, but I can't see where these are to go in the current plans. It would be great to have a gym so the team can use the facilities in the ground, rather than having to pay to use gym facilities elsewhere, and also good to have them available to the public so the council can see another strand of how this development helps the community.

It is handy to have had this consultation with fans and community ahead of talks with the council in September, as the council will no doubt ask what the fans and community think of the plans, and it wouldn't look good to answer, "er, we dont know". Also this gives the planners a chance to rethink concern areas we have raised, before going to the council.

Yeah positive upgrades going on all around and much needed given the business case needs to survive in footbal and be a positive sustainable resource in the community (although I'm a bit old school and love the romance of a knackered non-league ground). To be fair though, Ebbsfleet submitted planning application in 2022 and only got agreement (for only outline planning application) the other day - still a way to go to get full approval including turning over an objection from the national grid). Unfortunately, these things do take time due to national statutory duties and processes the local authority has to legally abide by - and not normally due to officers sitting on their hands. If you look at the weight and detail of each document Welling have had to submit, it goes to show the effort that has had to go into it, including detail you'd never even imagine.

-- Edited by Eastbourne Wing on Wednesday 1st of May 2024 09:53:53 AM

Riscardo wrote:

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greenwichwire.co.uk/2024/08/27/welling-united-flats-lita-homes-park-view-road/

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 So it was all a big waste of time. What a **** show. Statement from the club required I reckon. 

Disappointed but not totally surprised.

The worrying thing is the owner said at the open evening that it cost £100k a year to keep the ground open which isn't sustainable long term.

The ends seem OK now, and the Erith side is obviously up to scratch, so maybe we will have to demolish the main stand and replace it with something prefabricated or a terrace. There are enough seats in the E&B stand to pass grading for NLS, just not sure where the money would come from for anything on the main stand side.

Or we all check the train times to Northfleet...

"The Greenwich Wire can reveal that a clause in Wellings lease forbids residential development there, while most of the site is designated as Metropolitan Open Land, similar to the Green Belt, that is designed to protect the land from development."

So what part of that fact did the legal eagles not know about?

Perhaps the road end wasn't part of the protected land, possibly the pitch area only?

I just hope we get some sensible plans moving forwards.  Wasn't a huge fan of the development but supported it due to the state and cost of the current ground.  Maybe with grants and the right people we can stay and improve bit by bit.  

Jimmie wrote:

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It is amazing these restrictions on ground use are only raised now, so late in the day. This is serious news, as we lost £300K last season, can't keep operating losing figures like that, so a lucrative ground development would ensure the financial future and safety of the club. So without the development we are in an awkward position.

Looking longer term, it makes an all weather pitch look more necessary, as they bring in £25K a month, which would cover our losses, and ensure our future, the only downside is they lead to player injuries.

I wonder if there is some flexibility possible from the council. There are such clear benefits for the council from the development, they will make tons from rates from all the new properties and shops, and the area will benefit from a better looking PVR with its better facilities for the public to use. So blocking the development would just be the council cutting off their nose to spite their face, as there is no significant loss from the development - sport will still be played at the ground after a development.

Tons of schools sold off their playing grounds for properties to be built on them. So maybe the council has the potential to show flexibility for the benefit of Welling residents, as Welling lacks significant sporting facilities, so it would be silly for the council to block this proposed improvement to the local facilities, extra houses, extra shops, extra sporting facilities, extra council revenue.

-- Edited by Jimmie on Wednesday 28th of August 2024 08:19:14 AM

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 I have seen nothing YET to indicate that the Council have rejected/refused the development. It maybe that developers have just wised up to the legal position or it maybe that there is not enough profit in 104 flats. Whatever, it does not look good and it will be interesting to hear what the Club says. 

-- Edited by RonF on Wednesday 28th of August 2024 08:58:47 AM

Muzza1988 wrote:

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They have been told on multiple occasions that the proposed development was too big. The developers have been greedy and come unstuck.

There are loads of other options open to the club that need to be looked at rather than handing it all over to developers. The breakaway academy has obtained every grant going. They recently received £427,000 for the restoration of their site. Dorking have raised millions of pounds over the last year or so enabling them to buy their ground and develop a new training pitch.

Surely, it's time to move on from all this in a new sustainable direction and carry on the positive changes made in recent times.

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 Unless the powers that be at Welling United are looking for some back pocket wedge (and I am led to believe they are not), this would appear to be the only way to go. If our current owner is in it for the long term (and from the improvements we have seen recently, I am sure that is so) the management board must make best use of anything that is available and take the club forward in a constructive and sustainable way. 

I have spoken to a friend whos involved with planning matters. He tells me if a local authority wants a developer to do something different 99 times out of 100 the developer withdraws the original plan prior to submitting a revision. Therefore I for one am not yet concerned. 

What does concern me is how does Greenwich Wire have the knowledge about the clubs lease. Surely this is a matter between the freeholders and leaseholders. I am a leaseholder and would report my council under privacy laws if details of my lease were disclosed. 

Squarevanmanthesecond wrote:

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I am sure with the people on the operational board there is enough expertise to overcome any hurdles. I read on a non league facebook site a few days ago a club below our level obtained a million in grants to lay a new pitch. If we could do this and get more use 7 days a week this would bring in income, not just facility hire but bar and other activities.

You say this, yet my impression from the development meeting was that if this didnt go ahead, we are totally f*cked.

Either the club need to give an update with reassurances that the club will be fine without the development, or need to state what is needed to ensure the long term future of Welling United.

As good as the past couple months have been, there is no point having all these great new updates when serious concerns arent being addressed.

-- Edited by Luke on Wednesday 28th of August 2024 09:09:44 PM

-- Edited by Luke on Wednesday 28th of August 2024 09:10:02 PM

My immediate thought when I read the update that the developers had withdrawn is did they jump, or were they pushed, ie had they voluntarily quit, or had Welling decided to end the relationship, and the developers were giving this a nice PR spin to save face. A statement from Welling is needed to explain what is going on, ie have development plans been permanently shelved? Or are new partners for a development being sought/ already in place?

The developers didnt seem to have much idea about football grounds, as shown by them not having allocated plans for fans to stand at the park end of the ground in their original plan, so it may well be they hadnt thought of looking into the restrictions of the use of the land, but Welling had the details so should have known the restrictions would make a development impractical unless the council show some commonsense flexibility, and agree to allow the land to be used for leisure and housing.

I agree with the above comment, building bridges with Gary Fiore's set up may be a practical route, as it could be in the best interests of both parties, he would gain, but so would we, and neither would really lose out. Better to have a big part of something financially successful than all of something financially unsuccessful. Cray Wanderers have moved to their new ground, and got around 560 spectators the other day in their league game a division below us, already not that much less than we get. I've gone past the Fiore development, and they have so much space there it is crazy, compared to PVR which is so compact.

I got the same message as Luke about the importance of the development for our future, so finding an alternate to the dropped out developers is essential for the future of Welling as you just cant run a business over 365 days of the year pretty much relying on income from the 23 league games and some cup games if drawn at home.

As I said at the time : it's a pie in the sky dream.

Statement from the club is on the main website.

Danson Mark wrote:

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Statement: Park View Road redevelopment update Welling United

No mention of Greenwich Wire's suggestion that the planning application contravenes conditions in the lease.

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 I was thinking while hanging about at the ground today. I remember people telling me and hearing it at Barries or Pams funeral that the Hobbins family actually lived in the ground. That must go against the argument that residential is against the lease as I would expect Bexley knew about it. 

 

The doctor wrote:

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As I said at the time : it's a pie in the sky dream.

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Don't worry doc, after reading the club update, the pie in the sky dream is still alive!

I have tremendous respect for everything we achieve, as in many ways we are punching above our weight, which this link of attendances helps show Vanarama National League South | Average Attendances | Home Matches | Football Web Pages