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Post Info TOPIC: Torquay United v Welling United match thread


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https://www.kentsportsnews.com/torquay-united-v-welling-united-preview-2-20-10-2023/

https://wellingunited.com/2023/10/match-preview-torquay-united-v-welling-united/



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Lost 5-1.

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Ran the game for first half hour and a cracking goal from Adom.

 

Then self destruct. Stupid penalty to conced and heads dropped. 2-1 down at ht but more poor defending two more goals conceded. Further moment of immaturity from our new keeper arguing with ref after being booked in first half having made mistake for pen leaving us with 10 men. At least Tristan kept clean sheet as his replacement.

Assume academy keeper will play Tues

 

We 

 

 



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We went in a pub afterwards where they had plaques on the wall of ships that had sunk in Torquay.  I think we can add the good ship Welling United to the list.  Well and truly sunk today. Hope we can bounce back as a gap opening at the bottom now. 



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Bloody hell, apart from that first half in our first match we have played quality football, miles ahead of last season, but the lack of experience in attack meant we just have not got the results to show how well we have played. But I suppose maybe it is a case of if things go wrong with us, they REALLY go wrong, what was it, conceding from two penalties and a free kick, and the one month loan signing keeper foolishly argues after already being on a yellow card, so will miss three games is it? Danny will be wondering when his luck will change, sings experienced Adam Roscoe as a striker, who gets crocked within a few minutes of his debut, signs a keeper who immediately gets sent off and missing games as a result. Javarn Pitterson looked solid against Boreham Wood, so it wont be a disaster if he plays in the first team for the next games. But luck evens out.

I've also noticed that points gap that is building between us and safety, adrift by 5 points. Hmm. As I've mentioned, we have some easier games in November, but the guys will be worn out for Maidstone after playing a man short today, so that will be tough. But it is the following November games against lower teams that will tell us a lot about whether it is time to worry or not.

That Boreham Wood game holds the key, it showed what we can do, if we play like that every game we will get out of trouble.

Sometimes in football it is just not your day, listening to Nigel's' commentary, it definitely sounds like that was the case today.

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Not sure where to start on this one.
Personally think the blame lies primarily with Danny Bloor.
He brings in an emergency keeper who gets to meet his team mates that very morning for a stroll around the harbour.
Keeper then goes on to have an absolute nightmare of a game.
All this happening whilst the academy keeper (who done alright against Borehamwood) has to watch from the sidelines.
Javan Patterson must have had a wry smile for being dropped for this lemon
This sort of move I would have expected from Feeney, I kind of hoped Bloor would put more faith in our youngsters.

Onto the second half.
Cameron Green fails to appear and therefore Bloor puts Byrd in his place and brings Taylor Curran in at centre back.
My good god, what on earth was Bloor thinking?
Byrd played right back against Truro in the opener and we had a similar outcome.
Moved him into the middle and hey ho. He is not quick enough and their winger made light work of overtaking him.
Curran spent more time seeking information from the bench on what he should be doing, than actually doing anything.
In all honesty, we may as well have played with ten men.

Think this emergency keeper unsettled the side. Coupled with Bloors choices made for an overall $hit afternoon.

Hold your hands up on this one Dan.


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Jimmie wrote:

...and the one month loan signing keeper foolishly argues after already being on a yellow card, so will miss three games is it? 



 1 game



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I think Bloor took a gamble on this. From his perspective, if he puts Javern in goal and he had a stinker, most people would say he's too inexperienced and Bloor should have got a loanee in. In hindsight a poor decision.



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We all agree Danny is a nice guy and very passionate etc but results are terrible....truly awful...yet again we are in trouble so early in season....

Need points desperately...no matter how they come

The Danny feel good factor is draining away

Not saying get rid at all but something has to change

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I was interested to see the Boreham Wood manager say he had watched our 3 previous games, and knew what to expect as we played the same players in the same formation in each game. I understand why Danny is doing that, as his Welling team has just played 12 league games and 4 cup games, so players need to play together to build up understandings across the pitch, and that has improved as the season has gone on.

But the downside of that is that teams will know what to expect, and how to counteract us, if it is too predictable.

Danny has quite a defensive formation, with only 1 attacking player, which frees up a player to play in defence or midfield. As we dont have lots of striker options it has made sense to only play 1 in attack. But I wonder if now is the time to be more attacking in our formation, as I believe attack is the best form of defence, and play with 2 up front, Tristan and David, as it would mean we may concede more from having one less player in defence/ midfield, but would score more, and as long as one starts scoring more than one concedes the formation change could be beneficial. We have a run of bottom 6 teams coming up, these would be safer matches to try a more attacking formation, as I totally get why we havent against the higher teams, where 1 up front is safest, but against lower teams we can be more attacking. Like, we have bottom placed Havant, and 3rd from bottom Dover soon, and it would be criminal to play with only 1 up front against those sort of teams, as they are not such an attacking threat, so we dont need to be set up overly defensively. I will be asking Danny at the meet the manager meeting about playing 2 up front. I remember how changing our formation last season by starting to play Manny Parry as a holding midfielder transformed us, and it looks like we need another change to rebalance the team. In one of our recent games Alex came on, Tristan syayed one, and we had 2 strikers on, and having two attacking players really made an impact, as Alex had his best game, holding up the ball, bringing others in to attacks, so the rare time we have tried 2 strikers it has worked.

We are coming towards January, so presumably there will be some squad changes as some of our loans run out then. There is that saying madness is doing things the same way and expecting different outcomes, so with us now 5 points adrift it feels like we need to make some changes, as yes, the lack of an experienced striker really damaged us at the start of the season, but we have 11 league goalscorers, so the team as a whole are impressively doing their best to help fix the scoring issue. Thanks Graham, I am in the give Javarn more games camp, but a 1 match ban isn't too damaging.



-- Edited by Jimmie on Sunday 22nd of October 2023 10:25:04 AM

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Sidcup Graham wrote:

I think Bloor took a gamble on this. From his perspective, if he puts Javern in goal and he had a stinker, most people would say he's too inexperienced and Bloor should have got a loanee in. In hindsight a poor decision.


 I think the decision to get the loanee was the right one. Unfortunately it was maybe the wrong loanee or a reasonable loanee who had a mare. Tristan will never make a goalkeeper for Welling as none of his kicks went out for a throw in. Mind you he was better in goal than out on the wing where he seemed to be spending too much of the game yesterday. 



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I wasn't at the game so can't pass judgement on the performance - however, it didn't make for good listening. We do play some very good football at times and bar an appalling first four games the results haven't been terrible (W4 D4 L4 in all comps). I don't think the squad is too far off, Dickenson is a big miss and will provide some much-needed experience at the back when he returns and I think the midfield trio of Vaughan/Bramble, Odusanya and Papadopoulos is a little lightweight - a David Ijaha type would really do the trick. I've also been disappointed with Lewis White and would've expected more from a player of his calibre. Hopefully, his goal yesterday means Adom will get some more opportunities.

We desperately need to put some points on the board in the league and I think we have some very good opportunities to do so over the next few weeks as our following 6 games after Maidstone on Tuesday are all against teams in the bottom half. The gap has widened between us and safety but I wouldn't say it's panic stations just yet. I still have confidence in Danny and believe he is the right man to turn this around, however, if we are still in the relegation zone come the end of November I think some difficult decisions will have to be made.

I would also like to say that I think Danny made the right choice with the keeper. As much as I think Pitterson performed admirably against Boreham Wood, he certainly didn't fill me with confidence. There were a few times where he got quite fortunate with bounces in the 6-yard box and his positioning for the winner was poor - for me Winterbottom makes that save. It will be interesting to see if he brings in another loanee for Tuesday or if he gives Pitterson another go. I'm surprised he didn't put Curran in goal when Holden got sent off, he can't be any worse than he is in defence! I've seen some really poor players in my time supporting the club and he is definitely up there with some of the worst.

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Wallop wrote:

Not sure where to start on this one.
Personally think the blame lies primarily with Danny Bloor.
He brings in an emergency keeper who gets to meet his team mates that very morning for a stroll around the harbour.
Keeper then goes on to have an absolute nightmare of a game.
All this happening whilst the academy keeper (who done alright against Borehamwood) has to watch from the sidelines.
Javan Patterson must have had a wry smile for being dropped for this lemon
This sort of move I would have expected from Feeney, I kind of hoped Bloor would put more faith in our youngsters.

Onto the second half.
Cameron Green fails to appear and therefore Bloor puts Byrd in his place and brings Taylor Curran in at centre back.
My good god, what on earth was Bloor thinking?
Byrd played right back against Taunton and that didn't go well.
Moved him into the middle and hey ho. He is not quick enough and their winger made light work of overtaking him.
Curran spent more time seeking information from the bench on what he should be doing, than actually doing anything.
In all honesty, we may as well have played with ten men.

Think this emergency keeper unsettled the side. Coupled with Bloors choices made for an overall $hit afternoon.

Hold your hands up on this one Dan.


 



-- Edited by Wallop on Sunday 22nd of October 2023 06:52:05 PM

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Apologies if I am mistaken, but I believe the 1 match suspension for the two yellow cards will take effect next Saturday, so James Holden could play on Tuesday if Danny chooses to select him.

 



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 I still have confidence in Danny and believe he is the right man to turn this around, however, if we are still in the relegation zone come the end of November I think some difficult decisions will have to be made.


 I agree with everything else you wrote but not this. If we get rid of Danny what do we do then?  Get in a new manager who will have no money to spend in the hope of staying up? And then get rid of him if we don't?

As long as our team are giving everything to the last I think we should stick with Bloor even if we are relegated. 

I actually think we will be alright but it might be close. Our last two games are Weymouth (H) and Slough (A)

 



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Chris wrote:

 I still have confidence in Danny and believe he is the right man to turn this around, however, if we are still in the relegation zone come the end of November I think some difficult decisions will have to be made.


 I agree with everything else you wrote but not this. If we get rid of Danny what do we do then?  Get in a new manager who will have no money to spend in the hope of staying up? And then get rid of him if we don't?

As long as our team are giving everything to the last I think we should stick with Bloor even if we are relegated. 

I actually think we will be alright but it might be close. Our last two games are Weymouth (H) and Slough (A)

 


 I really like Danny, he comes across as a stand-up guy and his sides play very attractive football. I have every confidence that he will turn things around, however, we can't allow the club to sleepwalk towards relegation because we don't want the manager to lose his job. Were we to go down there is no guarantee we would come straight back up - even Dulwich with their massive crowds and an experienced manager are struggling and in recent years Whitehawk and East Thurrock have both been relegated back-to-back (and Concord look very likely to repeat that feat this season). Going down would shrink our already very small budget even further and I'd hate to think it could potentially hinder our development plans - which are already looking doubtful as to keep on schedule planning should have been put in a month ago. I couldn't possibly say who would be in line for the job should Danny get the boot, if it did happen I doubt it'd be for a while yet and a lot can happen in football in a couple of months so by that time more options will be available. We're debating hypotheticals though. I really believe he will turn things around though and I wouldn't be surprised if come the end of the season we are comfortably mid-table. We all need to keep the faith!



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Chris wrote:

 I still have confidence in Danny and believe he is the right man to turn this around, however, if we are still in the relegation zone come the end of November I think some difficult decisions will have to be made.


 I agree with everything else you wrote but not this. If we get rid of Danny what do we do then?  Get in a new manager who will have no money to spend in the hope of staying up? And then get rid of him if we don't?

As long as our team are giving everything to the last I think we should stick with Bloor even if we are relegated. 

I actually think we will be alright but it might be close. Our last two games are Weymouth (H) and Slough (A)

 


 Agree.  Lots of games aside from this and the first have been fine margins in not picking up points.  I think with the depth of the squad and resources the manager has he doing what he can.  Gave the wrong person the right set up last year.



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Success is relative in football. A quarter of the season in the headline is Danny has got us 5 points adrift of safety, which obviously looks bad. But actually, it could be argued that in the circumstances he has got us in a better position than most other managers could have with the same squad and finances, so definitely should be kept. We are actually similar in profile to Cheshunt, low crowds, not much money, they were relegated last season, but kept their manager Craig Edwards, as they could see he had done as well as anyone could with the limited resources he had. Same applies to Danny.

The hidden secret to the issues is we are clearly very tight for money this season after mismanaging our money last season, so Danny has to use a smaller, cheaper squad than he would doubtless have preferred. The difference in our finances is most clear in attack, last season we could afford to sign proven experienced strikers Ade Azzez and Stefan Payne for the season, and their goals kept us up by 10 points. This year we started with a cheaper attack of young inexperienced striker Alex on loan to us until January, and a 17 year old youth player who was also inexperienced in our league, and in this league you cant expect to be successful with an attack like that, so our pre Tristan results are no surprise. It worries me though that Tristan may be overloaded, and then we will be back to square one, so some rotation with him may be good.

I have heard our budget this season is 50% of last season's.  Warren told me the owner Howard Prosser had lost interest in the club now that Warren has gone, and it is clear there is less player investment this season. I think more attention needs to be directed on Howard, and less on Danny, as Danny's 3 top 8 finishes in a row show what he can do with the right tools, so it is up to the board to pull together and invest in attacking players.



-- Edited by Jimmie on Monday 23rd of October 2023 07:16:06 AM

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Courtjester wrote:
Sidcup Graham wrote:

I think Bloor took a gamble on this. From his perspective, if he puts Javern in goal and he had a stinker, most people would say he's too inexperienced and Bloor should have got a loanee in. In hindsight a poor decision.


 I think the decision to get the loanee was the right one. Unfortunately it was maybe the wrong loanee or a reasonable loanee who had a mare. Tristan will never make a goalkeeper for Welling as none of his kicks went out for a throw in. Mind you he was better in goal than out on the wing where he seemed to be spending too much of the game yesterday. 


 Agree fully with this. I expect Holden to be between the sticks tomorrow and Winterbottom to be back next Saturday while Holden serves his one match ban.



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We started brightly on Saturday and were the much better side for the first 25 minutes deservedly taking the lead on 18 minutes with a cracker from Adom. After we scored though it was as if we decided we are 1-0 up away from home against a bigger club we need to defend what we have. But at any level you can't defend for 72+ minutes! The loanee goalkeeper was shockingly bad. He seems very hesitant. That could be because he doesn't know his team mates. After we scored we dropped deeper and deeper and it was obvious they would equalise sooner or later. I swear our defence was sitting behind the goal in the stands at one point. I was sitting with 2 ELLs in Welling and near Matt Mein and said as much to them.

Our defence of Winterbottom, Lema, Burchell, Byrd and Green has been by and large solid this season, so without Winterbottom already, losing Cameron Green at half time as a massive blow. Holden the loanee goalkeeper compounded his poor performance by already having been booked deciding to argue with the referee well that was just foolish in the extreme and got himself sent off. Then it was damage limitation from then on in. Abrahams in goal was able to keep a clean sheet so that stopped the goal difference getting any worse.

Maidstone tonight like Torquay on Saturday are free hits. Neither match I really expected to win either but anything we might get is a bonus. After that though we have a series of supposedly easier fixtures and we must start getting results. We are already 5 points adrift of safety and need to beat the teams around us. We are playing some great football this season but it is vital we add points to that.

I said last season we can't keep changing manager and I repeat that statement now. Whether it was Bradley Quinton, Steve Lovell, Peter Taylor, Warren Feeney or Danny Bloor. Like them or loathe them, Welling United need to create stability, nail their colours to the mask and say this is the right man for the job. Then give them time to implement there style on the team. Danny Bloor should be given at least the whole season. It is a big ask for Welling to stay up on the budget but I don't think anyone else would do any better. Constantly changing the manager and squad just gives the other teams a head start while everyone gets to know each other and a new team gels. I think we are just getting to that point. Our team is settled and doing the best they can. Maybe a tweak with a strong holding midfielder or another more experienced striker but not wholesale changes again. Even if it ends in relegation having a base and solid foundation would be vital to being successful in the Isthmian League. We don't want to be a completely new team in the division below.

The journey to Torquay on Friday was long and hard due to the accident on the M4 that closed the motorway and the subsequent heavy traffic on surrounding routes and diversions. I bumped into Lachlan Byrd, Cameron Green and Jack Burchell at the services in Yeovil off the A303 so I don't think the players driving down independently was ideal preparation. Surely a team coach or at worst going by train would be better for such long away trips?

Verdict: Concerned but hoping to get points against the lesser clubs

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