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Jimmie


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Obviously it isn't ideal or promising to be 8 points adrift, with 21 points, so needing 29 points out of the remaining possible 60 points to reach the usual safety spot of 50 points. But to free up tacking them on the end of other posts, I will put any R word posts here in future. Alan thinks we're gone, but I'm not so sure.

So far this season we have played both our league games against Eastbourne, Aveley and Dartford, but everyone else we still have to play a second time. And though there are lots of good teams left to play, there are some struggling ones that look more winnable. We need something like 7 wins and 8 draws, or 8 wins and 5 draws to stay up.

There are more positives than the table suggests.  Dover's second highest scorer is James Dunne, Havant had an awful start that will be hard to recover from, Eastbourne have an identity crisis - football team or player social development forum? Weymouth seem low on resources, and Taunton's problems make them look unlikely to get too many more points this season, Weston have poor recent form... so let's see what happens.



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Polo


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Just rambling nonsense again I see. For anyone who normally skims over Jimmie's posts....

We're 9 points adrift of safety, and need 10 wins out of 20 to guarantee safety.

We've played some teams twice and some once (Who would have thought that!?). Some of the teams we need to play are good, and some aren't as good.


6 other teams have issues.

See how easy it is Jimmie?



-- Edited by Polo on Thursday 11th of January 2024 11:39:48 PM

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Riverstown


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I have always thought that all games start with 11 per side. The score is always 0-0 before kickoff so in my unqualified opinion all games are winnable no matter who you play.

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Polo


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I think it was Kevin Keegan who said "I'm a firm believer that if you concede 1 goal, you must score 2 to win"

If only more people knew!

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The Poet


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"I will love it if we beat them"

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Jimmie


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Polo's tackles on me are turning him into the Taylor Curran of this site.

As I initially explained, we don't need to win 10 of our remaining games, we could stay up with as few as 7 more wins.

And we are not 9 points adrift of safety, it is only 8, as if we win and the teams above lose the goal difference changes.

Bearing in mind we had 4 first half of the season wins, it not too much to expect to win several more than that in the second half of the season. We got 0 points from our first 4 games of the first half of the season, we already have 1 from the first 3 games of the second half of the season, so have started off the second half better than we did the first half. I was so impressed with our battling response to going 3 down against Aveley, that spirit can get us out of trouble. Great to see us giving ourselves some sort of chance.

The fourth from bottom team that got relegated last year were on 48 points, so if that happens again 49 points would be enough to stay up. Then even 6 wins and 10 draws would keep us up. Riverstown is right, so these fans saying we will go down may be wrong, as there are positives that I seem to be the only one to comment on.

Forget Keegan, I am going to quote Jamison, "Goals win games". Damn it, he's right! Now let's score them.

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Wallop


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The Poet wrote:

"I will love it if we beat them"

 Beat me to it.



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Jimmie


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I've kept really quiet, but I'll tell you something, Polo Curran went down in my estimation when he said that. We have not resorted to that, but I'll tell you, you can tell him now if you're watching it, we're still fighting for this relegation battle, and he's got to go to the sweet shop and get something, and... and... I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we beat them. Love it.

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Jamison


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Jimmie I'm going to start charging you £10 per quote.


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RonF


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Is this thread really necessary, it's just cluttering up the airwaves.

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Jimmie


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Ron, don't worry, it will be. Maybe it hasn't started off as focused as intended as Polo always goes off topic, but I will remind him of the importance of doing so, and he will be able to follow the excellent example on this I, and you, always set.

There was nowhere to keep a track of those clubs around us, to fill in some of the details, so trust me, this will be useful. We have cup action tomorrow, with Eastbourne, Weymouth and Taunton directly above us all having league games tomorrow. We've got an away game on Tuesday, so intrigued to see who we put out tomorrow.



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Courtjester


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Jimmie wrote:

Ron, don't worry, it will be. Maybe it hasn't started off as focused as intended as Polo always goes off topic, but I will remind him of the importance of doing so, and he will be able to follow the excellent example on this I, and you, always set.

There was nowhere to keep a track of those clubs around us, to fill in some of the details, so trust me, this will be useful. We have cup action tomorrow, with Eastbourne, Weymouth and Taunton directly above us all having league games tomorrow. We've got an away game on Tuesday, so intrigued to see who we put out tomorrow.

You're assuming we can't look at a league table and work out that we need to win games and other teams to falter. 



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The Poet


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"Polo always goes off topic"

This will definitely be challenged as Dean was spotted with an empty red wrapper on a few coaches. The withdrawal from shelves is, more than likely, the root cause.

Get your confectionery puns in asap!

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The Poet


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I heard a wispa that we still have a chance of survival in this league. Fight the good fight.



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saundeel


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Joe Ellul to save the day?



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Jimmie


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Not too bad a day for us in the games those around us played, Eastbourne lost, Taunton and Dover both dropped 2 points by drawing with each other, from our perspective a shame Weymouth got a good win against Slough. Havant beating Maidstone was a disappointing result for us.

After their exodus of players in the last month, Taunton were down to a squad of 14, which includes 2 keepers and a player with a broken hand, so are the likeliest team above us we could overtake in due course.

Seeing Byrd and Burchill play together today reminds one of how much better we play when they are together. Great for the players to get a confidence giving win against Chesterfield. And we played with much more experience, killing the game once we were 2 up. After Farnborough the next 4 matches against Truro, Chelmsford, Hemel, and Hampton are against teams in form, but then come Havant and Taunton.

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Chris


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Although it is good to have Burchill back we are now 9( and a worse goal difference) away from staying up. Without Abrahams, Jephte and Adom we don't look like scoring anywhere near enough goals.



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Jimmie wrote:

After Farnborough the next 4 matches against Truro, Chelmsford, Hemel, and Hampton are against teams in form, but then come Havant and Taunton.

 As your post was only seven lines long Jimmie, I read it! But sorry, more inaccuracy, as at the end you say, "... but then come Havant ..".

I trust you are aware that over the last six league matches, Havant have won four and have accrued the same points (12) as Truro and Hemel, and with a better GD. Meanwhile our Wings have earnt two points. Havant will not be the push over they appeared to be a month ago.



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Courtjester


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bexleylion wrote:
Jimmie wrote:

After Farnborough the next 4 matches against Truro, Chelmsford, Hemel, and Hampton are against teams in form, but then come Havant and Taunton.

 As your post was only seven lines long Jimmie, I read it! But sorry, more inaccuracy, as at the end you say, "... but then come Havant ..".

I trust you are aware that over the last six league matches, Havant have won four and have accrued the same points (12) as Truro and Hemel, and with a better GD. Meanwhile our Wings have earnt two points. Havant will not be the push over they appeared to be a month ago.

 And isn't Havant FA trophy day?



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Jamo


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We are already down.

You can grasp at all the straws you like but we dont have the players, we dont have the goals in the side to win enough games.
Its been building for years and this year its finally going to bite.



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Jamo wrote:

We are already down.

You can grasp at all the straws you like but we dont have the players, we dont have the goals in the side to win enough games.
Its been building for years and this year its finally going to bite.

 Not only that but if the board don't pull their fingers out, we will go down again next season just like Concord and possibly Cheshunt will.

Bloor needs to be offered a contract for next season, and the chance to start building his own squad for next season. No interference from the boardroom and Taylor Curran finding his own club at his own level (probably SECFL).



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The Poet


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Courtjester wrote:
bexleylion wrote:
Jimmie wrote:

After Farnborough the next 4 matches against Truro, Chelmsford, Hemel, and Hampton are against teams in form, but then come Havant and Taunton.

 As your post was only seven lines long Jimmie, I read it! But sorry, more inaccuracy, as at the end you say, "... but then come Havant ..".

I trust you are aware that over the last six league matches, Havant have won four and have accrued the same points (12) as Truro and Hemel, and with a better GD. Meanwhile our Wings have earnt two points. Havant will not be the push over they appeared to be a month ago.

 And isn't Havant FA trophy day?

 Certainly is, so looks like a midweek job down at Havant.



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Jimmie


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The reality is bar a few weeks in August we have been in the bottom 4, and are currently 9 points adrift, so on the surface look bound for relegation. But looking at that more closely it is more positive than that, with some good grounds for optimism.

I agree with the idea here of treating each remaining game like a one off cup final, as playing to avoid relegation is stressful and leads to us getting bogged down in scrappy bad tempered matches like the Slough game, that stop us playing to our strengths of fast play. If we treat each game like a cup final, and dont let the R word shape how we play, win enough of those one off cup finals, whether it is 6, 7, 8 or 9 wins needed and we would be safe.

The Farnborough match is extra important, as that is our easiest January game, and we outplayed them in our October 2 - 2 draw.

I think our problem this season is we havent had a strong bench, so replacements have weakened the team. Yesterday showed the importance of a deep squad, Chiori Johnson has been excellent, slotting in perfectly, when he went off with a hamstring (yet more bad luck for Danny, he must be wondering what on earth he had done to deserve such a run of injuries, which have played a massive part in our poor league position) Burchell came on who is real quality, and the team didnt dip, unlike others we have played who singlehandedly cost us 3 goals and lost us the match.





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Jamo


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To be fair Jimmie everyone can admire an optimist but there is optimism and there is realism.
There are no grounds for optimism on the horizon, we are where we are because the squad isnt
good enough, the team isnt good enough. The budget isnt competitive, the team dont score goals
and at any level of the game if you struggle to score then invariably youll be down the wrong end.
We will have to go on a run to have any hope and we just are not capable of stringing victories together.
We are now an even weaker side than we were in the first half of the season and to think this lot can win
8,9,10 games in the remainder of the season is just pie in the sky.
Chris is nearer the mark in a comment above that a process need to be put in place now to avoid us falling
further down the pyramid next season because the way things are at the club we arent going to be involved
in the upper echelons of the league table to get back into this division next year.
What we mustnt do is capitulate are go into free fall which isnt beyond the realms of possibility such is the
awful way the clubs being run.
Empty promises and exciting BS rumours of stuff happening behind the scenes has been the narrative for
years now and all weve seen is mismanagement and decline so its time to open our eyes and start asking
serious questions as to what the hell is going on and to call people out and hold individuals accountable for
wrong doings and poor performance and at the very least a bit of honesty and respect to the long serving
loyal and long suffering Welling United supporters.



-- Edited by Jamo on Sunday 14th of January 2024 12:40:26 PM

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Jimmie


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We must avoid the trap of assuming the second half will repeat the first half. If it is a repeat where nothing changes, then yes, we go down. But if we work out what we need to change from that first half, and then making those changes in the second half it's cool. Danny sees one up front doesnt work for us, so plays two up front, and both scored yesterday.

My point about treating every remaining league game like it is a one off cup final had some additional accuracy I only realised after posting that. Our league form has been poor, P26 W4. But our cup form is a total contrast, P9 W5 D2 L2. So in one off all or nothing cup games our guys show they can do it, maybe enjoy those big one off games more. So if we approach league games the same all or nothing way, like its a one off cup game, not one in a series of 46 league games, then things can turn round.

When we were kids playing football I bet most wanted to be striker and not keen to defend. I think our team is a bit like that too. A coach told me early in the season they were working on encouraging our players to get in the box after I pointed out we didnt score as we had too few in the box. They really improved on that over the season. I guess they saw it as other players' job to get in the box, not theirs. We keep giving goals away from not blocking crosses, and not blocking shots. If the team all get it is their job to stop those things, in the same way they learned to add getting into the opposition box, then that is a big positive change for the second half, and helps close the gap.

Opinions differ, I think we are miles better as a team now than the first half, our second half Dartford, Aveley and Chesterfield games have been miles better than our first half start, and the win draw and 2 losses from them could well have been 2 wins and a draw if we'd not played you know who against Aveley. Farnborough make me smile, as they are so average, W9, D9, L9. A win for us at Farnborough could possibly close the gap to 6 points. And a 6 point gap with 19 games to go isnt fatal.



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Luke


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Jamo wrote:

We are already down.

You can grasp at all the straws you like but we dont have the players, we dont have the goals in the side to win enough games.
Its been building for years and this year its finally going to bite.

 I'm more worried about a double relegation. The owners just don't seem too bothered IMO. Like you said, this has been coming for a good few years now.

Unfortunately I can't see us scoring anywhere near enough goals to survive.



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Jimmie


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I'll explain why I have more confidence in us, as that may show it is not as unrealistic as it seems at first sight.

In the first half of the season we got 20 points, so on target for a seasonal 40 points, which would have got us relegated by 10 points. But actually lots of poor results in the first half games were due to our inexperience on seeing out a lead by not playing possession football to wind down the clock, and us going for a second goal, which actually we didnt need as we were already ahead. That's why Chesterfield win was good, lessons learned, experience showing, we wound down the clock just passing it around so they had to chase it. In the first half games we often blew good positions so dropped points, twice ahead of Farnborough only to draw, 2 up against Dover only to draw... other games too...

So in the second half of the season we need to match the 20 points we got in the first half, which I am sure we will do, plus get an extra 10 points on top of that, which could be turning 4 teams we drew with in the first half into wins for us in the second half, 8 points, plus two losses in the first half into draws when we meet in the second half, 2 points. And most first half games were tight and decided by just one goal.

So we have to improve about 6 or a bit more results overall from our remaining 20 games, and I think that is very possible for us. We lost first match against Dartford, then improved the result in the drawn second meeting, that is the sort of thing we need to keep doing, improving on first meeting results. I was really pissed off at how the Farnborough manager said they deserved to win, when in fact they were twice behind, so it would be great to win that rematch. I'd love it! And Truro caught us cold in the first half of the first match at the start of the season, we have them after Farnborough, a good chance to right earlier mistakes. I'd love it too!

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Jamo


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Jimmie wrote:

I'll explain why I have more confidence in us, as that may show it is not as unrealistic as it seems at first sight.

In the first half of the season we got 20 points, so on target for a seasonal 40 points, which would have got us relegated by 10 points. But actually lots of poor results in the first half games were due to our inexperience on seeing out a lead by not playing possession football to wind down the clock, and us going for a second goal, which actually we didnt need as we were already ahead. That's why Chesterfield win was good, lessons learned, experience showing, we wound down the clock just passing it around so they had to chase it. In the first half games we often blew good positions so dropped points, twice ahead of Farnborough only to draw, 2 up against Dover only to draw... other games too...

So in the second half of the season we need to match the 20 points we got in the first half, which I am sure we will do, plus get an extra 10 points on top of that, which could be turning 4 teams we drew with in the first half into wins for us in the second half, 8 points, plus two losses in the first half into draws when we meet in the second half, 2 points. And most first half games were tight and decided by just one goal.

So we have to improve about 6 or a bit more results overall from our remaining 20 games, and I think that is very possible for us. We lost first match against Dartford, then improved the result in the drawn second meeting, that is the sort of thing we need to keep doing, improving on first meeting results. I was really pissed off at how the Farnborough manager said they deserved to win, when in fact they were twice behind, so it would be great to win that rematch. I'd love it! And Truro caught us cold in the first half of the first match at the start of the season, we have them after Farnborough, a good chance to right earlier mistakes. I'd love it too!

The best chance of us staying up seems to be to send you into the opposition dressing room for 20 mins before kick off to explain some of your thoughts on the game thus rendering them into a semi coma state of disbelief, boredom and a lack of will to live which will give us an advantage on the pitch!!!!

 

What an absolute load of utter orifice!!!



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Jimmie wrote:

I'll explain why I have more confidence in us, as that may show it is not as unrealistic as it seems at first sight.

In the first half of the season we got 20 points, so on target for a seasonal 40 points, which would have got us relegated by 10 points. But actually lots of poor results in the first half games were due to our inexperience on seeing out a lead by not playing possession football to wind down the clock, and us going for a second goal, which actually we didnt need as we were already ahead. That's why Chesterfield win was good, lessons learned, experience showing, we wound down the clock just passing it around so they had to chase it. In the first half games we often blew good positions so dropped points, twice ahead of Farnborough only to draw, 2 up against Dover only to draw... other games too...

So in the second half of the season we need to match the 20 points we got in the first half, which I am sure we will do, plus get an extra 10 points on top of that, which could be turning 4 teams we drew with in the first half into wins for us in the second half, 8 points, plus two losses in the first half into draws when we meet in the second half, 2 points. And most first half games were tight and decided by just one goal.

So we have to improve about 6 or a bit more results overall from our remaining 20 games, and I think that is very possible for us. We lost first match against Dartford, then improved the result in the drawn second meeting, that is the sort of thing we need to keep doing, improving on first meeting results. I was really pissed off at how the Farnborough manager said they deserved to win, when in fact they were twice behind, so it would be great to win that rematch. I'd love it! And Truro caught us cold in the first half of the first match at the start of the season, we have them after Farnborough, a good chance to right earlier mistakes. I'd love it too!

 WTF have you been smoking. You are completely delusional. 



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Jimmie


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Am I the only Welling fan to think we will beat the drop?

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Jimmie wrote:

Am I the only Welling fan to think we will beat the drop?

 Try reading your own long winded post. Its pure fantasy. Most of us long suffering Welling fans who have seen good and bad seasons realise this is the year where we are not going to get out of jail. ( please make me wrong) We are not going to win the amount of games you seem to think. I repeat what stimulant are you on.  My poison is good beer. There is no brew out there that gives me your optimism. I hope you are right and Im wrong but I dont think I will be wrong. 



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Jamison


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Jimmie wrote:

Am I the only Welling fan to think we will beat the drop?

 Yes. Unfortunately football doesn't work how you've described it in some posts. 

None of us want it to happen, but this is the year to accept we've been clinging on for a while now and accept our fate.



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Jimmie


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But Jamison, sometimes football does work the way I mention, teams have turned things round in the second half of a season, and starting off the second half of the season only 5 points behind wasn't fatal.

I think the difference in thinking between the two camps of down/ staying up is the downs are thinking mostly of the past, whereas the (apparently one) up thinks of the future and changes we need to make to ensure the future is not just a repeat of the past.

A fan made a great point to me, that when we meet for rematches us and them will be fielding 3 or more changes, so you can't totally compare the two matches, as to a degree the teams are different.

Now Farnborough is postponed our next match is Truro on Saturday, which shows the point made to me, as looking at the squad we played at Truro last time, and compare it with who we now have, of the 14 involved, only 5 are regular starters for us now, 5 have left and 1 is long term injured so unavailable.

Welling United: Winterbottom, Lema (Odusanya 46), Burchell, Dickenson (Olomowewe 61), Wood, Bramble, Vaughan, Green, Papadopoulos, Isiaka, MacAllister (Tanga 23).

So maybe things like that undermine both views, as lots has changed, maybe past failures aren't an indicator of the future. It is in a way why I feel the second half is a new start, admittedly with a 5 point handicap to overcome. I've been impressed with our 4 second half games. I remember it felt like Dipo pretty much single handedly kept us up, I wonder if we will have someone who can do that for us this season. It is why I hope Tristan is staying, as this team is a great platform for players to get attention.

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Jimmie wrote:
Am I the only Welling fan to think we will beat the drop?

Yes - anything else is just bedtime fairy tales sprinkled with more fairy dust!

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Jimmie


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It is funny bexleylion, I was thinking of this conversational thread earlier today, and was amused, as it made me feel a bit like I am some sort of evangelical figure, saying hallelujah, we will be saved, surrounded by disbelievers! So fear not brother bexleylion, we will be saved.

Time holds all the answers, my old secondary school had the school motto dum cresco spero, while there is life there is hope. And the good news is we're not dead yet! It is handy Taunton and Weymouth's games were also postponed today, now thinking about Truro!



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Jimmie


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Taunton are desperately trying to get a bigger squad, and 3 footballers currently at Bridgwater & Taunton College have signed on for Taunton, though getting 3 young players new to NLS football, just to boost squad numbers, doesn't look promising for the club.

It is a bit sobering looking at last season's league table, and seeing the bottom 4 teams, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:2022%E2%80%9323_National_League_South_table and the number of games they won and still went down. But it emphasises how the 50 points really is a target that hopefully will be enough to stay up. 3 of the teams 16th - 20th are in trouble again this season.

But I like the start to the second half of the season, first half started P 4 W0 D0 L4, F3 A9, second half P4 W1, D1 L2 F4 A5. Truro have won games recently, but actually several of those were against low teams, so hoping this is the first of our wins we need to stay up.

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Keeping an interested eye on the league table
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The Kingpin of all VFLs the absolute messiah

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J Cowley
MarkX


Club Legend

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RE: Keeping an interested eye on the league table
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Errrr..we are one of those 'low down' teams



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Jimmie


Club Captain

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Keeping an interested eye on the league table
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Maybe some of the disbelievers will be converted if we beat Truro on Saturday, which I fancy happening, if that happens depending on other results we could be just 6 points adrift, and then it is game on, just two wins to close the gap!

I watched a great recent interview with Thierry Henri, and was really impressed by his positive attitude, he was saying when he had 10 players to beat, he looked at is as if it was just 1 to beat, then if he beat him he had to beat just the next guy, so he just had to beat one guy at a time. That reminded me of our situation, we need 8 wins, but just have to get them one at a time. Have faith, we still have games against Dover and Taunton to come, and other winnable games.



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GaryH


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RE: Keeping an interested eye on the league table
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We would have to go from relegation form to play off form which at the moment I can't see. I'd be surprised if we can get to mid-table form - which won't be enough. 



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